Atheists as members?

[yalenole]

I was not refering to who had the best and most correct beliefs. I was referring to tolerance by all of us for each other. I know there are some groups that have very strong beliefs in one direction or another and everyone would not be confortable in all of the Greek organizations, but I also believe there is a place for all who are interested, somewhere in the Greek system where they would feel comfortable.

[Tom Earp]

Originally posted by ADSigMel
I think I can see where Tom is coming from. I don't think it's overly PC to think that all monotheistic religions do worship the same god. I mean, otherwise, it would mean that either there are multiple Gods or that some religion's god doesn't exist.

I'm sure he's not saying that Muslims worship Jesus, but rather that, to the extent that Muslims and Christians both believe "there is no god but God" / "la ilaha il-allah" (the Arabic phrase that means the same thing), the god of Christianity and the god of Islam must be the same one, otherwise either there are multiple gods or one of us is just dead wrong.

Every Muslim that I know claims to worship the same god that I (as a Christian) do, only they don't see the nature of God the same way that a Christian would (as in, Trinitarian). That is not to say that Christianity and Islam are the same religion, or even particularly similar (although I would argue that they are actually more similar than most people think). I just mean to say that if Muslims and Christians both believe that there is only one god, then the god of both religions logically *must* be the same one. At least that's how I see it, and I think that's what Tom is saying, too (correct me if I'm wrong, please, Tom).

Absolutely Correct. Thank You for putting My thoughts in a much better wording.

[Lady of Pearl]

IMHO I don't see how an atheist would feel comfortable in my organization as we are Christian based-we have prayer in just about all of our functions. I did know a Soror who was Muslim who was initiated with me but she soon went inactive for whatever reasons.

[Wolfman]

In a recent issue of our magazine, The Oracle, there was an interview with our Grand Chaplain, who was asked questions that are posed in this thread. His basic response is that our Fraternity needs to be more Christian, and evangelize those brothers who may be unbelievers by precept and example. he doesn't believe there are true atheists.There are brothers of other faiths but a true atheist would be a vey rare thing in our midst. He would be "in the closet"so to speak

An example of this check out the present message on the website: <http://www.oppf.org>.

[Senusret I]

Originally posted by Wolfman
In a recent issue of our magazine, The Oracle, there was an interview with our Grand Chaplain, who was asked questions that are posed in this thread. His basic response is that our Fraternity needs to be more Christian, and evangelize those brothers who may be unbelievers by precept and example. he doesn't believe there are true atheists.There are brothers of other faiths but a true atheist would be a vey rare thing in our midst. He would be "in the closet"so to speak

An example of this check out the present message on the website: <http://www.oppf.org>.

I would feel very uncomfortable if Alpha had a Christian message such as the one on the Omega site. I believe that having Christian values is fine, but I don't want anyone in my fraternity to evangelize to me.

[ADPi Conniebama]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

I would feel very uncomfortable if Alpha had a Christian message such as the one on the Omega site. I believe that having Christian values is fine, but I don't want anyone in my fraternity to evangelize to me.

*** from the Creed of Alpha Delta Pi***
" . . . I believe that the principles established by our founders in 1851 are enduring attributes exemplifying the highest ideals of Christian womanhood,. . . "

So with that being said I wouldn't "evangelize" anyone because I am an adpi, I would "evangelize" someone because I am a Christian.

I am sure that most people have had religious conversations with their sisters or brothers, and I don't feel that because I am a Christian I am not suppose to discuss my beliefs with a professed atheist who also believes that the founders were Christian.

So, my opinion on this thread is YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A CHRISTIAN TO BE IN A "Christian" society, but it would probably be easier if you believed in Christian ideals.

(edited for spelling errors)

[kddani]

Originally Posted by ADPi Conniebama

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A CHRISTIAN TO BE IN A "Christian" society, but it would probably be easier if you believed in Christian ideals.

(edited for spelling errors)

As has been said before, there's not really any difference between "Christian ideals" and just being a plain old good person. Don't lie, don't steal, don't murder. Really, there's really no difference between Christian ideals and good 'ole clean living and being a good person.

[jubilance1922]

Originally posted by Wolfman
In a recent issue of our magazine, The Oracle, there was an interview with our Grand Chaplain, who was asked questions that are posed in this thread. His basic response is that our Fraternity needs to be more Christian, and evangelize those brothers who may be unbelievers by precept and example. he doesn't believe there are true atheists.There are brothers of other faiths but a true atheist would be a vey rare thing in our midst. He would be "in the closet"so to speak

An example of this check out the present message on the website: <http://www.oppf.org>.

Wow...I'm with Senusret with that one. I would extremely put off if my organization put up a message such as that. What about all the members of Omega Psi Phi who aren't Christian, but may subscribe to another faith? Are they somehow bad members or something?

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by DSTRen13
Every branch of Christianity probably interprets the Trinity in a slightly different (possibly very different) way. Some don't believe in a trinitarian God at all. Most people would still say they are still all Christian. The above is your interpretation, but it's not the only one./end hijack

True and yet not true. I will certainly agree that people and traditions will interpret things differently. But the Councils of Chalcedon and Nicea firmly established Christianity as trinitarian, and that trinitarian doctrine as foundational to Christianity.

I feel pretty confident that the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Churches, and the vast majority of Protestants (mainline/oldline and Evangelical) would say that one cannot be Christian without accepting trinitarian belief in some form. Now, one can certainly disagree with them, but since they constitute the overwhelming majority of Christians in the world, I question whether "most people" -- at least most Christians -- would say that someone who doesn;t believe in a trinitarian god at all is a Christian.

We can all describe ouselves however we like, but that doesn't mean that others will agree with our self-descriptions.

[Optimist Prime]

Atheists are welcome. That would disqualify some of our most dedicated brothers. Seriously, it takes more than agreeing with me about religion to be my brother. Being someone's brother is about being someone's brother, not judging them based on religion.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
Really?

So, is Allah, God, Budda OR Whom Ever who People Believe in as The Supreme Being Different?

Buddha is not a "Supreme Being," Tom. Traditional Buddhism is nontheistic -- either not believing in the existence of a creator God (maybe not necessarily denying it either) or finding the concept irrelevant.

A Buddha in Buddhism is any person who has reached full enlightenment.

[DSTRen13]

Originally posted by MysticCat81
True and yet not true. I will certainly agree that people and traditions will interpret things differently. But the Councils of Chalcedon and Nicea firmly established Christianity as trinitarian, and that trinitarian doctrine as foundational to Christianity.

I feel pretty confident that the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Churches, and the vast majority of Protestants (mainline/oldline and Evangelical) would say that one cannot be Christian without accepting trinitarian belief in some form. Now, one can certainly disagree with them, but since they constitute the overwhelming majority of Christians in the world, I question whether "most people" -- at least most Christians -- would say that someone who doesn;t believe in a trinitarian god at all is a Christian.

This isn't a theology board, so I apologize in advance to everyone for this major hijack, but I was raised in a Christian church where many of the members (including myself) did not accept trinitarian doctrine. (Today, I am Unitarian Universalist, if anyone cares.) For most of my life, I've been surrounded by people who only consider very select Protestant denominations to be "real" Christians - Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and my own church (since we rejected the Protestant label) were not allowed in the club. So I am very sensitive about both of these issues. If someone believes themselves to be Christian by their own standards, what do you really care? I mean, do you really know what Christianity was truly intended to be - does anyone today, for that matter?

[blkwebman1919]

Originally Posted by DSTRen13

For most of my life, I've been surrounded by people who only consider very select Protestant denominations to be "real" Christians - Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and my own church (since we rejected the Protestant label) were not allowed in the club.

Ironic, since the Protestant Reformation (led by Martin Luther) references those groups that separated from the Roman Catholic Church, which until then was considered the universal church. In fact, some "old-line" Catholics believe Protestants have basically "lost their way" and that the only way to salvation is for them to basically return to the "one true Faith". The Church as an institution, however, has modified their stance on that over the years.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by blkwebman1919

Ironic, since the Protestant Reformation (led by Martin Luther) references those groups that separated from the Roman Catholic Church, which until then was considered the universal church. In fact, some "old-line" Catholics believe Protestants have basically "lost their way" and that the only way to salvation is for them to basically return to the "one true Faith". The Church as an institution, however, has modified their stance on that over the years.

Yeah, nowadays it's "We're all Christians" and while it would be better if they were Catholic, they're following Christ and that's what matters.


/Loves JPII and Benedict isn't as bad as some people were afraid he would be

[RU OX Alum]

Benedict was only elected to protect him from investigations.