HBGL Members: Do We Have To Be Tolerant? (Same Rules Apply)

[SummerChild]

I was reading the thread about Sensuret I in the Alpha Phi Alpha forum and various responses and began thinking of this question:

It is good, in and of itself, to be tolerant of the various lifestyles of members within our BGLO organizations?
Do we feel that we should accept the behavior of each of our members in order to be good members ourselves?
Is it a matter of whether we agree with the behavior?

I began to wonder this b/c whenever anyone says anything about a gay person in any of the BGLO frats, there is always the line drawn between the argument that the person makes the frat look bad and therefore shouldn't carry on or at least shouldn't claim the frat when doing so vs. people should be able to do whatever they want b/c it's a free world and people are bad if they don't accept what other people do in their lives. Which is it?

Of course, I'm simplifying both sides.

What do the BGLO members think? I specifically asked what BGLO *members* think b/c I think that when you know what it is to love an organization by being a member, it seems that you feel this issue for your organization most intently and that is what I'm asking about. Not the theorists. The real live BGLO members.


SC

[AKA_Monet]

There is fact and then there is reality...

I can see what the Alphas were saying. And I can see what Sensuret was saying...

There are better ways to handle it.

How would we be able to handle it if we had a lesbian coming out all out of our Sorority? Like she was famous and she got married somewhere and lived a "bodacious" lifestyle?

How would be handle sorors that may have lived on the "wayside" when they were young and were once "prostitutes" and "strippers" but they have changed dramatically and re-envisioned their life to become one's to change lives positively?

Basically, EVERYONE walks that lonesome valley by themselves on their own road to Damascus...

However, a better question would be should we penalize those who are members who have done criminal acts outside of the organization?

[Lady of Pearl]

These are controversial topics that you ladies are discussing, first of all what someone does in the privacy of their home is their own business. However, the person I feel- should not openly acknowledge this in association with their BGLO, as some people would misconstrue or not be as accepting of their behavior and thus further stereotype BGLOs- because of their association. Should those who commit criminal acts be penalized who are a part of the organization? Further information would be needed in order to make a decision- Were they representing themselves as part of the organization? If so, then they should be penalized. When one holds oneself out there publicly for display, then all acts should be looked at.

[abaici]

Originally posted by AKA_Monet
There is fact and then there is reality...

I can see what the Alphas were saying. And I can see what Sensuret was saying...

There are better ways to handle it.

I completely agree.

Still, I believe that a THINKING person should be able to understand that organizations are made up of people. Even if the people share common goals, they are not the SAME person.

[DELTABRAT]

I agree with what has been said however, I do feel that much of what was discussed in the Alpha forum was very sensitive because of the ways that gay men are protrayed in society. I don't think it's the same as a lesbian woman who is a member of XYZ sorority coming out or living in that lifestyle. Society penalizes being gay and male, not to mention being BLACK, gay and male. Being a gay woman on the other hand, isn't as stigmatized. Furthermore, there is a belief that a woman can go both ways, or be gay one day and not the next (a la Ann Heche) or be bisexual. WOmen don't automatically feel that a lesbian friend is trying to "get some: from them. Men, on the other hand, cringe at the thought of being in the locker room with a brothah who discloses that he's gay because men KNOW they are very visual and led by their...Therefore, when a man sleeps with another man, any other points of contention are moot. Society condemns it and men don't want to be associated.

Again, I think the "issue" came to be based on the fact that this brothah is a very active member of his Frat and men don't want their Frat to be associated with gay-ness. I think the question someone in another GLO asked on the Chit Chat board was very poignant...would this be as inflammatory if he were a serial killer/rapist/child molester? Yes and no. Yes, because I am sure many men of Alpha would see those acts as deplorable, however, it doesn't connote that every Alpha is a rapist/serial killer. etc. Moreso, it doesn't invite all serial killers and rapists to join Alpha, but the thought that gay men would see Alpha as "the gay man's Frat" is again, deplorable to heterosexual Alpha men. I say this because my most recent ex-boyfriend (LOSER) is an Alpha who is VERY anti-gay. I am an AIDS activist and try to get him to see the error in his ways. He ain't havin' it.

Mothaf____s just ain't tronna (yes I did say tronna) hear no gay itsh...point BLANK!!!

[SummerChild]

Ladies,
Do you think that we should be tolerant of those in our organizations, in general (not really asking specifically about the sexual orientation thing)?

Like for instance, if a woman in one of our orgs was outwardly professing to do something that we think is negative, and not hiding the fact that she is a member of our org, do you think that as good members we say "to each her own," or as good members, do we shun that behavior if its a negative reflection on the organization?

For instance, what if we have a member who outwardly sleeps with the husbands of other women. Do we shun that or do we say to each her own?

What do you think?

SC

[ladygreek]

Originally posted by SummerChild
Ladies,
Do you think that we should be tolerant of those in our organizations, in general (not really asking specifically about the sexual orientation thing)?

Like for instance, if a woman in one of our orgs was outwardly professing to do something that we think is negative, and not hiding the fact that she is a member of our org, do you think that as good members we say "to each her own," or as good members, do we shun that behavior if its a negative reflection on the organization?

For instance, what if we have a member who outwardly sleeps with the husbands of other women. Do we shun that or do we say to each her own?

What do you think?

SC

Now for me that is a whole 'nother issue--one of sisterhood.

And to the issue of crimes outside of the organization--I leave that to the criminal justice system, and the ruling documents of the organization.

As for the Gay issue, the Alphas already took a stand when they told E. Lynn Harris not to mention the fraternity in his books, nor publicly acknowledge his affiliation. But I guess the good news is they did not take his pin.

And I wish someone would answer the question I posed in the Alpha forum. Since this perception of Alpha being the Gay frat existed long before Rashid was born, or even thought of, what caused it to perpetuate all this time? Especially since being "out" is a relatively new phenomenom.

[AKA2D '91]

Thanks Soror SC for this topic. If ANYONE who is NOT a member of a BGLO posts, it will be deleted.

Please continue!

[AKA2D '91]

Originally posted by SummerChild


For instance, what if we have a member who outwardly sleeps with the husbands of other women. Do we shun that or do we say to each her own?

What do you think?

SC

I look at her like I'm 1/2 crazy. Then, I ask if she's active (doing anything for the organization). My concern lies more with THAT than whose husband she's sleeping with.

ladygreek
And I wish someone would answer the question I posed in the Alpha forum. Since this perception of Alpha being the Gay frat existed long before Rashid was born, or even thought of, what caused it to perpetuate all this time? Especially since being "out" is a relatively new phenomenom.

I guess it depends on your region. Yes, where I'm from Alpha has been known as the "Gay" frat. Yet, I met an Alpha years ago and he didn't know that.
However, I've heard the same thing about the Kappas. That goes back to sterotypes. I know there is a thread about that in this forum.



Gays and lesbians exist in our organizations. ALL of our organizations if we want to believe it or not. I'll put on a "face" but if you're doing what you are supposed to do regarding our organizations....CARRY ON!

DELTABRAT
I say this because my most recent ex-boyfriend (LOSER) is an Alpha who is VERY anti-gay. I am an AIDS activist and try to get him to see the error in his ways. He ain't havin' it.

I KNOW you're not saying Alphas are losers. I"m sure you're saying that your ex-boyfriend, who just happened to be an Alpha is a loser.

[SummerChild]

Sure Soror! I hope that we can have an interesting discussion.
SC

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
Thanks Soror SC for this topic. If ANYONE who is NOT a member of a BGLO posts, it will be deleted.

Please continue!

[SummerChild]

Ladygreek,
I think that what caused people to get up in arms was the tying together of Alpha Phi Alpha with what so many people believe is not positive behavior i.e. being homosexual. As if it is a poor reflection on the fraternity. I think that it was really about someone standing up and proclaiming proudly to be an Alpha when the behavior may be questionable to some. For instance, it might be like me doign inappropriate behavior for all to see then proclaiming that I'm a proud member of Alpha Kappa Alpha. Example: I'm getting sloppy drunk and wearing paraphenalia. I don't know but I might get hemmed up by other sorors in the room at the time. I don't think that the homosexuality proclamation is any different int the minds of some.

That's why I posed this question to really get other's views on whether others thought that doing behavior that some may deem negative is something to be seen as "to each his/her own" or soemthing to be shunned. Although my post isn't directed to homosexuality, whether we like it or not, in general, it tends to fit into behavior that the general society considers as wrong. I didn't want to get into the homosexual right/wrong discussion (b/c that will never be resolved) so that's why I was basically asking about behavior that is deemed by general society to be behavior that is not good.

SC

Originally posted by ladygreek
Now for me that is a whole 'nother issue--one of sisterhood.

And to the issue of crimes outside of the organization--I leave that to the criminal justice system, and the ruling documents of the organization.

As for the Gay issue, the Alphas already took a stand when they told E. Lynn Harris not to mention the fraternity in his books, nor publicly acknowledge his affiliation. But I guess the good news is they did not take his pin.

And I wish someone would answer the question I posed in the Alpha forum. Since this perception of Alpha being the Gay frat existed long before Rashid was born, or even thought of, what caused it to perpetuate all this time? Especially since being "out" is a relatively new phenomenom.

[AKA2D '91]

Originally posted by SummerChild
For instance, it might be like me doign inappropriate behavior for all to see then proclaiming that I'm a proud member of Alpha Kappa Alpha. Example: I'm getting sloppy drunk and wearing paraphenalia. SC

Oh. my. please. do. not. do. that.


*sigh*

[SummerChild]

Soror, that's what I mean. I think that some take the proclamation that one is proudly homosexual and in the next breath speaking about one's affiliation with a BGLO in the same way. I think this was the reason for the reaction. I was just giving Ladygreek (and all of you) an example that I knew that you could feel.

I would never do that.

SC

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
Oh. my. please. do. not. do. that.


*sigh*

[ladygreek]

SC, I hear what your are saying.

And I also look at behavior seperate from sexuality. If a Gay Alpha was slobbering all over a dude in public while wearing para, I would be just as upset if a soror was slobbering all over a dude in public wearing DST para.

[Steeltrap]

Originally posted by abaici
I completely agree.

Still, I believe that a THINKING person should be able to understand that organizations are made up of people. Even if the people share common goals, they are not the SAME person.

I have to agree with Soror. No organization is a monolith -- we do have commonalities but we don't think in lockstep.