Have Mossad agents been caught trying to secure foreign passports?

[RACooper]

New Zealand is raising a political stink because of two Israeli citizens arrested after trying to secure New Zealand passports. The New Zealand government alleges that the two men caught are Mossad agents, while the two men claim they are members of organized crime… diplomatic relations have become strained (diplomatic relations suspended), criticism of Israel and Israeli policy has been in media, and now a case anti-Semitic vandalism has occurred.

The reason that this of is of interest to me is that it seems to mirror cases that happened in Canada a number of years ago, and could involve Canadian diplomatic relations if the allegations that the men used Canadian passports and are connected to Mossad or the Israeli government prove true. I hate to see any country using the reputation of another to do it's dirty or illegal work... and it would particularly pain me to see Israeli agents hiding behind Canadian passports again.

New Zealand Herald coverage:
Story-
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydispl...portID=1162641
Canadian connections-
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydispl...portid=1162641
Canadian concerns-
http://ottawa.cbc.ca/regional/servle..._kidon20030424


ADL Disclaimer -
Please note that this post is a criticism of Israel and Israeli policy, with regards to the Mossad and it's actions.

[swissmiss04]

I wouldn't be so quick to blame the Mossad itself, but rather the individual agents involved. They should investigate this further before just cutting ties. And there's no excuse for the anti-Semetic attacks in NZ (or elsewhere, for that matter)

[Rudey]

I love how people post something and say don't say anything against me I'm criticizing Israel and I'm not anti-semitic without anyone accusing them of anything. I guess said people must have been accused of such things in the past. Perhaps said people have been going around GC claiming they know so much about Jews, antisemitism, Israel and get ashamed when someone presents them with facts, figures, statistics, and all sorts of proof making them look...shamed.

The news:
There was no proof by New Zealand. They can say what they want. Furthermore, New Zealand made these allegations in the beginning making a fair trial impossible while political figures were happy to keep making the allegations. Israel did not treat it as well as it should have diplomatically and is now pursuing it that way. There is no justification of anti-semitic acts and have no bearing on this.

-Rudey

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Rudey
I love how people post something and say don't say anything against me I'm criticizing Israel and I'm not anti-semitic without anyone accusing them of anything. I guess said people must have been accused of such things in the past. Perhaps said people have been going around GC claiming they know so much about Jews, antisemitism, Israel and get ashamed when someone presents them with facts, figures, statistics, and all sorts of proof making them look...shamed.

It's just I have been attacked in the past for an article I wrote years ago that was critical of Israeli intelligence operations... A couple of groups on campus sent me some interesting hate mail and a couple of death threats... kinda ironic because two months earlier I had written an article praising the Israeli military performance in the Yom Kippur War, after which I recieved hate mail too... so in the future I always included a little disclaimer at the end of my articles, and mailed or dropped off a copy at the consulate (it's two blocks from my college).... all in the hopes of stemming any attacks on me or those I care about. So I attached to my post in the hopes that intelligent people could see the difference between critizing the actions of a government agency and a people... they are two seperate entities and should be treated as such...

[Rudey]

Originally posted by RACooper
It's just I have been attacked in the past for an article I wrote years ago that was critical of Israeli intelligence operations... A couple of groups on campus sent me some interesting hate mail and a couple of death threats... kinda ironic because two months earlier I had written an article praising the Israeli military performance in the Yom Kippur War, after which I recieved hate mail too... so in the future I always included a little disclaimer at the end of my articles, and mailed or dropped off a copy at the consulate (it's two blocks from my college).... all in the hopes of stemming any attacks on me or those I care about.

Right that explains it. Except you never did it in the past when you wrote about Israel on Greekchat. But now you did. Right, right.

-Rudey
--Perhaps said person doesn't know much about the region, Israel, has made statements regarding the existence of anti-semitism *cough cough*.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Rudey
Right that explains it. Except you never did it in the past when you wrote about Israel on Greekchat. But now you did. Right, right.

-Rudey
--Perhaps said person doesn't know much about the region, Israel, has made statements regarding the existence of anti-semitism *cough cough*.

Look Rudey I couldn't give a flying f*ck what you think, the preceding posts weren't directed at you... but at others on GC and the original was done somewhat tongue in cheek because of whom I was talking to when I posted the thread. Further the reason I did it this time is from previous experience on GC I have noticed some people can't be given the benifit of the doubt when it comes to both their intelligent or the insight when it comes to debating issues concerning Israel.

Hey if it makes you feel better perhaps you can call my ex-girlfriend a race traitor.. it seemed to be choice phrase used by some members of the greek community up here when I first published the article on the Mossad.

[RACooper]

Now back to the subject at hand... in the past Canada has recieved promises that Israel (more specifically Mossad) would not illegally use Canadian passports. Last time it happened (the third time) Canada withdrew it's ambassador and suspended diplomatic relations until a formal apology was recieved and assurances were given... now if it does turn out that once again Mossad has been using Canadian passports I don't know what would happen. In the past Canada has tried to bring the matter up in international courts, but caved under some strong-arm tactics from the Americans in support of Israel. However this time the international courts aren't as favourably disposed to Israel or any American influence (see the ruling on the Barrier Wall), and this time New Zealand would also be lodging complaints as well... so maybe so action could be taken, or penalty handed out to discourage this insulting behaviour... thoughts?

[Rudey]

Originally posted by RACooper
Look Rudey I couldn't give a flying f*ck what you think, the preceding posts weren't directed at you... but at others on GC and the original was done somewhat tongue in cheek because of whom I was talking to when I posted the thread. Further the reason I did it this time is from previous experience on GC I have noticed some people can't be given the benifit of the doubt when it comes to both their intelligent or the insight when it comes to debating issues concerning Israel.

Hey if it makes you feel better perhaps you can call my ex-girlfriend a race traitor.. it seemed to be choice phrase used by some members of the greek community up here when I first published the article on the Mossad.

If the shoe fits?

-Rudey
--Wear it.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by RACooper
Now back to the subject at hand... in the past Canada has recieved promises that Israel (more specifically Mossad) would not illegally use Canadian passports. Last time it happened (the third time) Canada withdrew it's ambassador and suspended diplomatic relations until a formal apology was recieved and assurances were given... now if it does turn out that once again Mossad has been using Canadian passports I don't know what would happen. In the past Canada has tried to bring the matter up in international courts, but caved under some strong-arm tactics from the Americans in support of Israel. However this time the international courts aren't as favourably disposed to Israel or any American influence (see the ruling on the Barrier Wall), and this time New Zealand would also be lodging complaints as well... so maybe so action could be taken, or penalty handed out to discourage this insulting behaviour... thoughts?

Your proof?

-Rudey

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Rudey
If the shoe fits?

-Rudey
--Wear it.

What is that remark supposed to mean?

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Rudey
Your proof?

-Rudey

Please do some research into the topic at hand... use some of your much vaunted education. Otherwise contribute to the debate in other than quips.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by RACooper
Please do some research into the topic at hand... use some of your much vaunted education. Otherwise contribute to the debate in other than quips.

You, like anyone from New Zealand, currently has no proof that these are Mossad agents.

If you had read my first post you would know that. I am very familiar with Mossad's history and operations and don't really care much for the fact that you wrote a book report on them.

-Rudey

[RACooper]

So you refute that this is outside of the Mossad's procedures? So the fact that they have been caught in the past, numerous times, has no bearing at all by your thinking?

Oh and you still haven't explained your statement about "if the shoe fits"....

[Rudey]

Originally posted by RACooper
So you refute that this is outside of the Mossad's procedures? So the fact that they have been caught in the past, numerous times, has no bearing at all by your thinking?

Oh and you still haven't explained your statement about "if the shoe fits"....

I am telling you there is NO PROOF. Do you not understand that?? Are you absolutely and utterly stupid? When there is proof, then we'll talk. Right now there is NONE.

And my statement? I find it funny that you put disclaimers out there and are afraid of what hole your peg might fit into, otherwise you wouldn't have said it.

-Rudey

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Rudey
I am telling you there is NO PROOF. Do you not understand that?? Are you absolutely and utterly stupid? When there is proof, then we'll talk. Right now there is NONE.

And my statement? I find it funny that you put disclaimers out there and are afraid of what hole your peg might fit into, otherwise you wouldn't have said it.

-Rudey

Come come Rudey surely you can see why with the weight of history behind Mossad using foreign passport why people may suppose that yet again Mossad was trying to aquire illegally passports in furthance of their operations.... heck even an Israeli former Foreign Ministry director-general, Alon Liel, has come out and said that it is actions like these damages Israel's foreign standing and I quote "No country likes its sovereignty infringed upon," he continued. "The problem is that the Mossad doesn't seem to be learning from its mistakes, and lately there have been too many of these."
-link to quote: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1078113566627
So with the weight of history and comments such as these I am apt to believe the allegations... because they have proven true so many other times...


As for your statement: "If the shoe fits": Why not come out and say what you mean? Or perhaps instead you perfer to hide behind innuendo because you realised you misspoke? Or perhaps you just say what you do in a vainglorious grab for attention?