Cutting legacies early in rush (NPC)

[aephi alum]

The other legacy thread about step-relations got me thinking. I found this old thread but it didn't seem to contain my answer...

Most, if not all, NPC sororities require that legacies attending formal recruitment be invited back at least to the first invitational round.

But suppose a woman comes through who is sooo undesirable that she puts people right off. She's loud, rude, obnoxious, swears like a sailor, has rank B.O., no manners, sloppy clothes, bad reputation, criminal record, whatever. The exact opposite of a lady.

The other PNMs in her group can't stand her; maybe some have said aloud that if any sorority invites her back they will cut that sorority at the first opportunity rather than take the chance of ending up as her sister. But....... she's a legacy. Can you cut her? Should you cut her?

Alternatively, suppose a legacy comes through, she's a nice girl, but she doesn't meet your GPA requirement. You're not supposed to cut a legacy after round 1, but you are supposed to cut anyone who doesn't have the grades. Which rule prevails?

(Mods: This is kind of rush-related, so if you want to move it to the rush forum, that's fine... I started it in Greek Life because that's where the step-relationship legacy thread was )

[Tom Earp]

Nope, good place to put it!!!!!

If Dorkos, then why should theY be a automatic in//?

WILL THEY Be an Automatic Asset to the Chapter or a liability?

That seems to be the first question asked!

[rainbowbrightCS]

They can cut her becuase of grades, they should. Her family member should know that and should not be surpised that she was cut with something below min. Unless there is a given reason that can be worked out like family member died that semester or she was in a horrible car accident that she basically failed everything. But you would make expections to other girls for that rule also even if they were not a legacy.


Chris

It usually requires special permission to cut a legacy and then sometime you must contact the person (mom, sister, grandma, etc) and provide an explanation. Yikes.......

[deadbear80]

If she didn't make grades; she gets cut. That is the rule that prevails. Schools and Nationals make grade rules for a reason--and that reason stands true for any potential member legacy or not.
And I don't know how you got the idea that you could not cut a legacy after Round 1. That's school dependent. When I was rushing, we visited every sorority for Round 1 (called Rainbows) then got 'invited' back to a maximum number of 5 for Invites (Round 2). I was cut by my legacy chapter after Round 2. In general at my school for any chapter, if a legacy makes it to the 3rd round of parties, she's supposed to be on the prefs list, and therefore, the top of the bid list. Some National offices I know push their chapters to always invite back legacies that qualify (that is, have the grades); and some leave that to the chapter.
I definitely know that I made grades for my legacy chapter, as the chapter I pledged had one of the highest requirements for pledging (and my legacy chapter had the lowest), so I got cut for other reasons.

Hope that answers your question!

[sherbertlemons]

I definitely believe she should be released. Legacies are definitely important as ties to our history, but what you describe defies Kappa's standards so greatly that I don't think any doubt exists in my mind about it.

I do, however, beleive that it is important to give her every chance possible to prove herself, and treat her with courtesy regardless. (Of course, I beleive every PNM deserves extremely courteous treatment.)

[thetalady]

Originally posted by deadbear80
... And I don't know how you got the idea that you could not cut a legacy after Round 1. That's school dependent....

Do you mean that the college or university determines whether or not a legacy can be cut & when? Or were you saying that the individual GLO makes that decision? Just trying to understand the comment.

[honeychile]

Originally posted by deadbear80

And I don't know how you got the idea that you could not cut a legacy after Round 1. That's school dependent.

I'm afraid I have to disagree - it's the Executive Office of the GLO who decides at which point a legacy can or must be dropped. Unless our policy has changed drastically, all legacies (daughters, granddaughters, sisters) of an Alpha Delta Pi are automatically invited back to the Second Round. Depending on the situation, which would include grades & "compatability with the Chapter", she could be dropped at any round after that - except, if she is invited to Preference, she WILL be on the Bid List!

Many of the GCers from the past few years know that my chapter had a five-generation legacy when I was Rec Chair. Nobody liked her, she was perfectly obnoxious (but had a 4.0), she didn't want to go Greek, but there was no way in the world we could do anything about it. She pledged, but was initiated at Convention (instead of with her New Member class) and immediately went inactive. You cannot begin to imagine the amount of drama that was behind this little paragraph!!!!

[deadbear80]

Originally posted by thetalady
Do you mean that the college or university determines whether or not a legacy can be cut & when? Or were you saying that the individual GLO makes that decision? Just trying to understand the comment.

What I was trying to say was that an individual chapter is usually the determining factor for when you could drop a PNM (meaning for example that AB chapter of XYZ may always keep a girl until 3rd round, whereas AC chapter of XYZ may decide to drop legacies they know they won't take after Round 1 or 2).
Obviously, as was pointed out, some GLOs make determining factors over when you are/are not allowed to drop legacies.

[33girl]

Originally posted by deadbear80
If she didn't make grades; she gets cut. That is the rule that prevails. Schools and Nationals make grade rules for a reason--and that reason stands true for any potential member legacy or not.

As far as grades, that's totally right - if the school says you must have so and so GPA, it supercedes ANYTHING any sorority says. If the sorority says you must have a so and so grade, you might be able to take the person for a "grade risk" but if that isn't allowed there's nothing the mom or whoever can really do.

I have said before that I think some of the legacies who come through acting like freakazoids are TRYING to get cut, rather than have the balls to tell their mom, granny & 6 sisters that they want nothing to do with sorority life. If you are that entrenched that you want your daughter to pledge you would at least school her in basic social graces.

And usually other rushees find out from "tent talk" or the other girls in their group where the rushees are legacies at.

[aopinthesky]

Originally posted by deadbear80
What I was trying to say was that an individual chapter is usually the determining factor for when you could drop a PNM (meaning for example that AB chapter of XYZ may always keep a girl until 3rd round, whereas AC chapter of XYZ may decide to drop legacies they know they won't take after Round 1 or 2).
Obviously, as was pointed out, some GLOs make determining factors over when you are/are not allowed to drop legacies.

I may be misunderstanding what you said. Not all schools have the same number of rounds, so it is hard to know exactly when a cut may take place using that example. Many GLOs have the same policy as AOII - a legacy must be invited to the first invitational round. They may be dropped after that. If they are invited to Pref, they appear first on the bid list. Within that policy, individual schools may do anything they wish, but that is the minimum. I think that most GLOs in the NPC (if not all) have a policy at the national level about legacies that their chapters must adhere to.

[deadbear80]

Originally posted by aopinthesky
I may be misunderstanding what you said. Many GLOs have the same policy as AOII - a legacy must be invited to the first invitational round. They may be dropped after that. If they are invited to Pref, they appear first on the bid list. Within that policy, individual schools may do anything they wish, but that is the minimum. I think that most GLOs in the NPC (if not all) have a policy at the national level about legacies that their chapters must adhere to.

You're not misunderstanding. That's exactly what I was trying to say. I was just debunking the comment that you could not drop a legacy after Round 1--because at some schools, the 'invite' round is later (meaning that legacies, if they were dropped, were dropped after Round 2).

[kdonline]

Sometimes, chapters who have not met quota or have been on grades probation are told they cannot drop legacies.

But nothing is 100% cut & dry. If a legacy has a horrible reputation or horrible grades, & this is told privately to the chapter advisor (who discusses with her superior in the HQ line), the girl is dropped.

It really all depends on the chapter, & their relationship with HQ/advisor.

But from what I have understood, it seems that every NPC sorority will put legacies at the top of their bid list, if they are invited back to prefs.

As for inviting back legacies to 2nd round, this also depends on the chapter. Usually, legacies have recommendations, so it falls under the rule "all recs are invited back to 2nd round" as a courtesy. But not every chapter uses this "courtesy" rule.

[carnation]

This ties in with the in-house legacy thread that was here in the fall. Many sororities will drop an IHL early in rush, figuring that she'll pledge her sister's sorority. I think they ought to try to find out from the PNM if that's her intention because over the years, I've known several rushees who had no intention of pledging their sisters' sorority....though most do want to, it seems.

[tld221]

She's loud, rude, obnoxious, swears like a sailor, has rank B.O., no manners, sloppy clothes, bad reputation, criminal record, whatever. The exact opposite of a lady.

isnt that kinda sexist and elitist? or is it okay, because youre "allowed" to include/exclude on these grounds?

what if a potential rushee has some of these attributes as a legacy (or even if she wasnt)?

ex. lets say she smells really bad, klutzy, swears, and committed a crime. shes a great person otherwise, has the GPA, and a legacy. then what? i mean, a lot of girls swear, greek or not. and a lot of girls smell, greek or not. is said prospective not a lady, therefore not greek-worthy? of course its not cut and dry, but some of these attributes cant be helped, maybe they arent aware its a problem, or cant help it (the less fortunate tend to have sloppier clothes, and i can legitimately say this.)

another example: lets say shes fat. and by fat im talking obese (once again in can legitimately say this) technically this isnt considered 'ladylike,' but do u exclude her? or how about if she had a short buzz cut? how abot 9 tattoos, and piercings on her face? not things u exactly associate with being a lady, but do u exclude these ppl?

dont insult her femininity or self worth on the basis of her flaws or what you dont think is ladylike. (cause we all have them)


i could go on and on. just my 2cents.