GreekChat.com Forums  

Go Back   GreekChat.com Forums > Greek Life
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Greek Life This forum is for various discussion topics regarding greek life. If you are posting a non-greek related message, please do so in one of the General Chat Topic forums.

» GC Stats
Members: 329,720
Threads: 115,665
Posts: 2,204,950
Welcome to our newest member, kingallen
» Online Users: 2,137
0 members and 2,137 guests
No Members online
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-21-2004, 03:02 PM
g41965 g41965 is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Probably late for Court
Posts: 453
Former W& L Sig Ep's file Suit.

I subscribe to the Google News-search on fraternities, recently an article was posted describing the ongoing battle between the former Washington and Lee SPE chapter and the National Organization of SPE.
The article stated that the former chapter had filed suit in Virginia Circuit Court against the national org. on the basis of slander/lible causes of action and for a declaratory Judgment that the revocation of the chapter charter relased the members from membership in the fraternity thus allowing the members to affiliate with Alpha Delta Phi.
The article goes on to mention that the failure to relase could constitute an illegal restraint on trade as it limits the number of orgs. at W&L.
Washington and Lee officials state in the article that they have no evidence of wrondoing by the chapter.
What an interesting situation, maybe Breathes Gelatin can give us an update us on the situation.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-21-2004, 03:45 PM
breathesgelatin breathesgelatin is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 4,137
Send a message via ICQ to breathesgelatin Send a message via AIM to breathesgelatin Send a message via MSN to breathesgelatin Send a message via Yahoo to breathesgelatin
I knew this was coming. Lordy, lordy.

In short: National SigEp took the guys' charter. The guys were widely acknowledged to be chill and above board on campus, so it was a big shock. Then the guys courted ADPhi. ADPhi came and initiated them, and they were unrecognized and unhoused. Then rush week came along. They did not get any pledges (they could have gotten 1 or 2 but they told them to go on b/c of the whole situation; these men took bids elsewhere). Now there is this legal thing. And word on the street is that the guys are now going to become social members of yet another fraternity on campus (a recognized one) in order to pull that fraternity out of financial woe and keep it going. So I don't know what that's all about. It sounds to me like the national president of ADPhi is kind of grasping at straws... oh well. We'll see. Best of luck to everybody!

There was a previous thread on this issue.

Here is a link and article from one of the school papers:

http://www.thetrident.org/news/2004/...e-583722.shtml
ADPhi brings suit against SPE

By Michael Lee
On Thursday, the thirty-three members of the Robert E. Lee Affiliate of Alpha Delta Phi at Washington and Lee filed suit against the Sigma Phi Epsilon national fraternity alleging slander, libel, and defamation of character.

Sigma Phi Epsilon (Sig Ep) suspended their Virginia Epsilon chapter's charter in July, citing a failure to reverse a pattern of behavior and misconduct "inconsistent with the values of Sigma Phi Epsilon" and Washington and Lee. Sig Ep's national office sent out letters to parents of the former brothers explaining the situation.

"The chapter has accrued allegations of alcohol abuse, been involved in questionable membership activities, and regular disdain and combative relations with the Alumni and Volunteer Corporation and Headquarters staff," said the letter.

The letter also stated that the chapter's grade point average had declined over the last three years, and that efforts made by officials from the Headquarters and Alumni and Volunteer Corporation have been unsuccessful in bringing an end to this negative pattern of behavior.

The former Sig Eps then proceeded to affiliate themselves with Alpha Delta Phi (ADPhi), a national fraternity ready to support them in maintaining their brotherhood at W&L. Their membership in ADPhi, however, hinged on a waiver of membership from Sig Ep nationals. Under the North American Interfraternity Conference rules, "no member fraternity shall initiate a member of another fraternity," and "no member fraternity shall accept a petition for membership, grant colony or other affiliated status, or grant a charter to any group substantially representing an existing or previously resigned or disassociated colony or active chapter of another fraternity."

In order for the former Sig Ep brothers to be initiated into Alpha Delta Phi without violating NIC rules, Sig Ep's national office needed to provide a release for those former members.

There, of course, is where the controversy began. The former Sig Eps at W&L were initiated into Alpha Delta Phi on October 4, 2003, and ADPhi's Executive Director William E. Millard advised Sig Ep of the same on Monday, October 6. Sig Ep then filed a complaint with the NIC. Their claim to NIC Executive Director Jon Williamson was that its letter to their former members' parents over the summer did not comprise a release. Sig Ep maintained that they fully intend to re-constitute their chapter after these men have graduated, and that in order to protect its housing interest and agreement to return, they would not be releasing those men.

Meanwhile, Alpha Delta Phi and their new affiliate argued that the letters constituted a de facto release. Believing their reputations to be damaged by statements made by Sig Ep nationals, the individual brothers in Lexington filed suit against Sig Ep.

"The individuals involved are filing suit against SPE for slander, libel, and defamation of character, related to the continued sullying of their reputations regarding their situation," said Alpha Delta Phi National President Dave Brewster. Brewster provided two letters on Sig Ep stationary that claim, he says, "charges of rape, alcohol abuse, and common thievery that the school supposedly knew about!"

Brewster then presented a third letter to the NIC from W&L Dean of Students Dawn Watkins, dated the day after the NIC complaint was filed. This letter stated that the charges listed by Sig Ep in its letter to the NIC, "are not a matter of record within our University judicial proceedings for the local chapter."

Brewster went on to say that Alpha Delta Phi would never have taken these men if any of those charges were true.

"If all these claims are true, where are the police reports, insurance filings, and all other records?" said Brewster.

Should this lawsuit not be resolved favorably to ADPhi, Brewster stated that a second lawsuit is currently being investigated for possible filing.

This second suit would take the form of a complaint against Sig Ep and the NIC under the Sherman Antitrust Act. Brewster said that under the Sherman Act, a person cannot interfere with the free trade, commerce, or association of another. In not releasing their members, Brewster alleged that Sig Ep and the NIC are preventing these men from associating with Alpha Delta Phi. Brewster provided, as support for this case, Hamilton Chapter of Alpha Delta Phi vs. Hamilton College (1997), in which four fraternities collectively defeated Hamilton College's attempt to force all students to live on campus and subsist on University board plans. The fraternities contended that Hamilton's actions were an illegal attempt to restrict commerce.

Jon Williamson, Executive Director of the NIC, declined to comment on the pending lawsuit.

Scott Thompson, Communications Director for Sig Ep said that as of Tuesday evening, Sig Ep had not received any official notice of the lawsuit. Thompson went on to say that the charter suspension was based on records received from the University and Alumni Corporation that included reports of hazing, recruiting with alcohol, and a combative relationship with headquarters.

Thompson said that Sig Ep Nationals acted in full accordance with their own rules for dealing with this situation. "Our bylaws clearly say that after a charter is withdrawn, the brothers' undergraduate memberships are suspended, but they remain eligible for alumni status upon graduation," said Thompson. "This was explained to the brothers and their families in our letter of July 2003."

Thompson did not recall any NIC action after Sig Ep's comity complaint was filed, but stated that whatever happened after their filing was subject to NIC rules and was not under Sig Ep control.

Currently, Sig Ep's complaint is undergoing review, and as a result, the ADPhis at W&L remain an affiliate, not a true chapter.

Last edited by breathesgelatin; 01-21-2004 at 03:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-21-2004, 03:54 PM
Optimist Prime Optimist Prime is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: somewhere in richmond
Posts: 6,906
I hope they do well and get to be a fraternity. They act like brothers should by sticking together so more power to them.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-21-2004, 04:03 PM
PhiPsiRuss PhiPsiRuss is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Listening to a Mariachi band on the N train
Posts: 5,707
Send a message via ICQ to PhiPsiRuss Send a message via AIM to PhiPsiRuss Send a message via Yahoo to PhiPsiRuss
Quote:
Originally posted by Optimist Prime
I hope they do well and get to be a fraternity. They act like brothers should by sticking together so more power to them.
I think that the only way that the Alpha Delts will win this battle, is if they relinquish their rights to the house in which they currently occupy. My guess is that when Sig Ep decided to close shop, they reached an agreement with the W&L administration to retain access to their current housing for when they recolonize. Otherwise, Sig Ep HQ was acting in a highly presumptuous way, and they are going to have some alumni who are livid.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-21-2004, 04:05 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hotel Oceanview
Posts: 34,519
Geez, why doesn't Sig Ep just let them go and be done with it? I can understand if they want to keep the house, but why would their housing agreement have anything to do with whether or not they terminate these guys? There are plenty of fraternities and sororities that have land at schools where there is nary a member in sight.

Sig Ep maintained that they fully intend to re-constitute their chapter after these men have graduated, and that in order to protect its housing interest and agreement to return, they would not be releasing those men.
__________________
It is all 33girl's fault. ~DrPhil
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-21-2004, 05:29 PM
PsychTau PsychTau is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Out of Arkansas, into VIRGINIA!!
Posts: 839
breathesgelatin....Question for you.....

Who owns the Greek Housing at W&L? Specifically, who owns the SigEp house? If SigEp owns the house outright, then those brothers can be evicted, therefore ADPhi as a chapter could not reside there (well, that's what common sense says. Law doesn't always work that way).

I'm sure that if SigEp wants to return to campus in X number of years they can sign an agreement with W&L to retain that house or to get the house back (whomever is living there at the time) whenever they recolonize. But maybe not.....

And what's up with those guys joining another social fraternity on campus in order to help that fraternity financially? If I was that third fraternity, I don't know if I'd want to get involved in this mess! Whew!

PsychTau
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-21-2004, 05:57 PM
breathesgelatin breathesgelatin is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 4,137
Send a message via ICQ to breathesgelatin Send a message via AIM to breathesgelatin Send a message via MSN to breathesgelatin Send a message via Yahoo to breathesgelatin
A clarification:

At W&L, all the Greek housing is owned by the University and leased by the national fraternities or the housing corporation thereof. SigEp has the lease on their former house for the next three years. Therefore, the house sits empty today. The Alpha Delts are currently unhoused. They have their own off-campus houses but there is no fraternity house, dining facility or anything of that nature. This (IMO) is why they were not able to attract a large pledge class; based on personality alone I'm sure they could have attracted 14-15 guys. There are currently no vacant, unleased fraternity houses. (A few like the old Delt house have been given over to University theme housing like the International house), so the likelihood of Alpha Delt getting a campus house that conforms to W&L's regulations are low (the school would basically have to build them a new house. My guess is that SigEp is worried about the status of its vacant, leased house. The University could theoretically decide to terminate their lease. The brothers of Alpha Delt are in fairly good standing with the administration AFAIK. Then the house could be used either for more theme housing or for Alpha Delt.

I'm not sure that any of this matters since Alpha Delt did not get any new members.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-21-2004, 07:34 PM
madmax madmax is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,373
I think the guys are making things too complicated. They should just ignore SPE National and start recruiting new members. Once the new members are recruited they can be initiated by ADP National as ADPs. SPE will have no ties or control over the new ADP members. Then the new members can contact the school to become recognized and get their house back.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-21-2004, 07:40 PM
Tom Earp Tom Earp is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Kansas City, Kansas USA
Posts: 23,584
Question

My Question is then, that if the House Corporation/ National did own the lease to the School Owned House if the So-Called Rules were Broken, did that not break the lease? Then does The School to the above abode to find the Fraternity in default? If so, then they have the right to deny the right of said Greek Organization the right of lease.

It sounds for some reason that The Sig Ep National was unhappy with them and therefore dechartered them. Whether The SigEp National dechartered them, Nice guys or not, that is the Decission of the National HDQ. I am not really sure that The insueing Fraternity could Initiate them as a member of a NIC Fraternity unless, each and everyone were given the fight to do so!

If I was W& L, I would find the Lease In Default, rent to another viable Greek Organization!

If they were so judged By Their National and not someone who says OH NO, they were nice guys, Then Gone, Gone! If They Screwed Up, so be it!

From What it sounds like W & L has Problems, Period! Not with them, depending on what their feeling is about GreekLife or the screw ups for What They Do!
__________________
LCA


LX Z # 1
Alumni
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-21-2004, 07:54 PM
madmax madmax is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,373
Quote:
Originally posted by Tom Earp
My Question is then, that if the House Corporation/ National did own the lease to the School Owned House if the So-Called Rules were Broken, did that not break the lease? Then does The School to the above abode to find the Fraternity in default? If so, then they have the right to deny the right of said Greek Organization the right of lease.

It sounds for some reason that The Sig Ep National was unhappy with them and therefore dechartered them. Whether The SigEp National dechartered them, Nice guys or not, that is the Decission of the National HDQ. I am not really sure that The insueing Fraternity could Initiate them as a member of a NIC Fraternity unless, each and everyone were given the fight to do so!

If I was W& L, I would find the Lease In Default, rent to another viable Greek Organization!

If they were so judged By Their National and not someone who says OH NO, they were nice guys, Then Gone, Gone! If They Screwed Up, so be it!

From What it sounds like W & L has Problems, Period! Not with them, depending on what their feeling is about GreekLife or the screw ups for What They Do!
Even if a NIC fraternity could not initiate the current members they could still initiate the PNMs and the new members would have no ties to SPE.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-21-2004, 07:56 PM
PhiPsiRuss PhiPsiRuss is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Listening to a Mariachi band on the N train
Posts: 5,707
Send a message via ICQ to PhiPsiRuss Send a message via AIM to PhiPsiRuss Send a message via Yahoo to PhiPsiRuss
There are undercurrents, of which, none of us are aware. There are alumni to consider. There may be Sig Ep alumni on W&L's Board of Trustees. There may be W&L Sig Eps who are national Sig Ep officers. There may be W&L Sig Ep alumni who are very wealthy, and who want Sig Ep back, and want nothing to do with Alpha Delt. All of these potential factors can inflluence the behavior of Sig Ep, as well as the behavior of the W&L administration.

If a W&L Sig Ep alumnus, who is a heavy hitter with the school, calls up and says, "I want that house available for Sig Ep when we come back in 4 years," the school will think twice before breaking that lease, even if the school has the right to do so.

Also, we don't know the whole story as to why Sig Ep shut that chapter down. When I was at FSU, XYZ fraternity had a party, and a girl got drunk and injured. Also, the brothers of that fraternity were rude and crass to her. Her father was an alumnus of XYZ fraternity. Guess who got put through a full blown membership review before the semester was out? Of the roughly 150 members, about half were left. We don't know who called who, and we don't know what was said.

There is little information about this story, that I'm inclined to disregard the obvious, and go by the old saying that "truth is stranger than fiction."
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-21-2004, 09:40 PM
Rudey Rudey is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Taking lessons at Cobra Kai Karate!
Posts: 14,928
Quote:
Originally posted by madmax
I think the guys are making things too complicated. They should just ignore SPE National and start recruiting new members. Once the new members are recruited they can be initiated by ADP National as ADPs. SPE will have no ties or control over the new ADP members. Then the new members can contact the school to become recognized and get their house back.
Agree. These kids need to just move faster and get new guys.

-Rudey
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-21-2004, 11:35 PM
PsychTau PsychTau is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Out of Arkansas, into VIRGINIA!!
Posts: 839
Quote:
Originally posted by madmax
I think the guys are making things too complicated. They should just ignore SPE National and start recruiting new members. Once the new members are recruited they can be initiated by ADP National as ADPs. SPE will have no ties or control over the new ADP members. Then the new members can contact the school to become recognized and get their house back.
True. That would be the quickest, easiest way to get an Alpha Delt chapter going. They (the SigEp members...apparently I can't say former yet) could have Alpha Delt alums perform the initiation in order to make it all "legal" on paper, etc. BUT...that doesn't solve the complaint about SigEp releasing the former members....and it doesn't guarantee that the Alpha Delt chapter will be recognized by W&L (I don't know what those policies are).

I agree with Russell.....I am 110% positive there's all kinds of stuff going on that the general public doesn't know. Possibly stuff that even the SigEps won't admit to...who knows. I just hope it ends quickly and quietly.

PsychTau
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-22-2004, 04:34 AM
breathesgelatin breathesgelatin is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 4,137
Send a message via ICQ to breathesgelatin Send a message via AIM to breathesgelatin Send a message via MSN to breathesgelatin Send a message via Yahoo to breathesgelatin
Quote:
Originally posted by madmax
I think the guys are making things too complicated. They should just ignore SPE National and start recruiting new members. Once the new members are recruited they can be initiated by ADP National as ADPs. SPE will have no ties or control over the new ADP members. Then the new members can contact the school to become recognized and get their house back.
--They have been initiated as ADPhi
--They did try to recruit and failed to be competitive because they do not have a house. They met a lot of great guys who were like, "I love you guys, but...."
--The house is leased by SigEp for 3 years from the school... I don't see ADPhi getting the house back. As Russell mentioned there is a lot more going into this than y'all know. W&L's Greek system is very unlike many other Greek systems due to the sheer percentage of people involved.

What a lot of folks seem to missing is that the guys never had any claim to the house--it's owned by the school. If tomorrow the school decided it wanted to end all leases to Greeks and turn the houses into dorms, it could.

Russ, while there are prominent SigEp alums in the administration, I don't think that's a huge factor. I do think the relative sizes of SigEp and ADPhi is a factor. I think they also may be antsy about the events or whatever that SigEp alleges happened to cause the charter pull. It's also the pending legal action; in discussions with our IFC President he's as much said that his hands are tied until all the court stuff is over. I don't see recognition happening. I am 95% sure that the guys are currently pursuing another even more creative option...

I have no comment about everything else.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-22-2004, 03:14 PM
PhiPsiRuss PhiPsiRuss is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Listening to a Mariachi band on the N train
Posts: 5,707
Send a message via ICQ to PhiPsiRuss Send a message via AIM to PhiPsiRuss Send a message via Yahoo to PhiPsiRuss
Quote:
Originally posted by breathesgelatin
I do think the relative sizes of SigEp and ADPhi is a factor.
I agree, and have given this some thought.

My guess, and its only a guess, is that Alpha Delta Phi Fraternity made a procedural mistake when they initiated these men. Sig Ep, like most NIC groups, followed their standard operating procedure of maintaing the membership of the active members, when the charter was revoked or suspended. Sig Ep probably assumed that Alpha Delt understood this. Alpha Delt, on the other hand, is so small, that they may not have a standard operating procedure for this type of scenario, and Alpha Delt may not have anticipated Sig Ep's assumptions. The Alpha Delt officer(s) is charge, may have made some incorrect assumptions, and permitted the chartering. When Sig Ep brought Alpha Delt up on charges to the NIC, Alpha Delt may have then realized what had happened, and then began to back-track on their actions. This is my guess, but time will probably prove me partially, if not completely, wrong.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.