Is having children a right?

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Originally posted by Munchkin03
Anyone--regardless of political views--with a rudimentary knowledge of American history should shudder at the idea of government-forced sterilization. In 1973, two sisters--12 and 14--were sterilized without their or their mother's consent, as the surgeries were ordered by the US Government.* This was a long line in a sordid history of forced sterilizations, which were disproprortionately given to women of color and poor TEENAGERS, none of whom have given birth or had been pregnant. As a progressive, I would hate to think that people are assuming (ahem) that "liberals" (whatever that means) are for government-enforced sterilization.



*If interested in the exact details of the case, do a simple websearch of the Relf sisters in Birmingham Alabama.

Could you please provide a link to this story? I did a google search, but I could only find one relevant article. Thanks in advance.

[bethany1982]

Originally posted by aggieAXO
why not they make alot of other rules about what we can and cannot do.

Oh yes, government can do whatever it pleases...

[sherbertlemons]

Originally posted by Peaches-n-Cream
Could you please provide a link to this story? I did a google search, but I could only find one relevant article. Thanks in advance.

I couldn't find ANYTHING on it. Or at least a summary of the situation would be nice.

I have to say that I tend to be pretty liberal, and I am appalled at the idea of the government having the power to force sterilization on anyone, regardless of whether or not they would make fit parents.

Perhaps making him volunteer at a school or some other work benefitting children would be a more appropriate method of rehabilitation.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Originally posted by sherbertlemons
I couldn't find ANYTHING on it. Or at least a summary of the situation would be nice.

I have to say that I tend to be pretty liberal, and I am appalled at the idea of the government having the power to force sterilization on anyone, regardless of whether or not they would make fit parents.

Perhaps making him volunteer at a school or some other work benefitting children would be a more appropriate method of rehabilitation.

Here is the only relevant link that I found. It is a large article about the government sterilizing women without their consent and includes the sad story of the Relf sisters.

[Munchkin03]

Here they are. I felt that it would be better to have those interested do a websearch, 'cause I didn't want my sources to be attacked as overly left-leaning or feminist. Plus, I originally read about the case in one of my Female Sexuality books, and I couldn't find it (I found it now). Here are two links in addition to Peaches-n-Cream's, from two (I feel) reputable sources.


Summary of the Supreme Court Case from Georgetown Law

From Houghton-Mifflin (textbook publishers)

I originally learned of the story from Angela Davis's Women, Race and Class. She discusses the early birth control movement in general, then she goes into the forced sterilization. Of course, I'm not using this as my sole source of information about it. I consider Georgetown Law, a major textbook maker, and the Harvard School of Public Health pretty impartial sources.

Regardless of your political views, forcing tubal ligations on TEENAGERS (one of the sisters was 12!) should be viewed as SICK, especially when they deliberately hoodwinked the mother into believing it was "just a shot." Each time something like this happens, it pushes us closer to eugenics. And you know who practiced eugenics.

[Jill1228]

Very well said! Amen my Triad sister!
(coming from a woman who has marched on Washington). BTW I consider myself a middle of the road chick!

Originally posted by SmartBlondeGPhB
You think the government shouldn't tell people they can't have kids, BUT you think it's ok for the government to tell people they must continue a pregnancy. It's amazing how Republicans scream about wanting less government interference, but think it's ok for the government to interfere in a woman's body.

NEWS FLASH: It's all still the government trying to tell us what to do..........

It's like the saying goes. If you can't trust me with a choice, how can you trust me with a child?

Having kids is a privilege and should be treated as such. You shouldn't have them and then expect those of who choose not to have them to support yours. Most people don't buy a new car if they can't afford one. The government shouldn't regulate it, but people should think through all the issues before they decide to have kids.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by SmartBlondeGPhB
You think the government shouldn't tell people they can't have kids, BUT you think it's ok for the government to tell people they must continue a pregnancy. It's amazing how Republicans scream about wanting less government interference, but think it's ok for the government to interfere in a woman's body.

NEWS FLASH: It's all still the government trying to tell us what to do..........

It's like the saying goes. If you can't trust me with a choice, how can you trust me with a child?

Having kids is a privilege and should be treated as such. You shouldn't have them and then expect those of who choose not to have them to support yours. Most people don't buy a new car if they can't afford one. The government shouldn't regulate it, but people should think through all the issues before they decide to have kids.

And for the record........I'm a Democrat.

What my sister said.

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by Ginger
You know that radical and controversial thread? Well here's my radical and controversial idea.... I think people should be required to get a permit/liscense to have children. If it's an unplanned pregnancy, you still have to apply, and if you don't pass, your child goes up for adoption.

There are too many shithead parents in the world, and too many loving couples in who can't have children and can't afford the adoption process.

Guess what, I'm going to disagree with this, for several reasons. First of all, it's not the government's business to intrude into someone's personal life to tell her whether he/she can or cannot reproduce (and yes, I am pro-choice). Who will determine the qualifications for a permit? What would you do if you didn't pass and one day became pregnant and had your child taken away?

The thing is, I'm not big on everyone reproducing. I think that many of the problems in our world today are caused by overpopulation, but I don't think that government intervention is the key -- I think that the key is education and cheap, easily available birth control.

As a side note, I work counseling parents who have abused or neglected their children, and do you know what? The best way to help shithead parents is to educate and counsel them so that they can be better. It works quite often. I'd much rather try to help people than take their children away because they're not living up to my standards.

[aggieAXO]

I was just watching the news and they were profiling a family that was in a homeless shelter-a woman and her SEVEN children-all under the age of 10 (no husband in the picture)-HELLO, WTF? I feel sorry for the children but come on-when are people going to realize that it takes money to have kids. The woman was complaining b/c while she is thankful for people's donations during Christmas they are forgotten after the holidays-WELL EXCUSE ME IF I WAS SUPPOSE TO SUPPORT YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN ALL YEAR ROUND-PLLLLLEEEEAASE.

I agree education is the key but then in many instances religion gets in the way (here goes my pope "bashing" again). Until we have religious leaders also preaching birth control education will continue to fall on deaf ears for some people. In that case-if you want tons of kids then put up or shut up.

[Dionysus]

mmmm mmm mm goooooooooddd!11!!

[Rudey]

Get rid of welfare.

-Rudey
--Manu Chao says so.

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by valkyrie
Who will determine the qualifications for a permit? What would you do if you didn't pass and one day became pregnant and had your child taken away?

This is exactly why we shouldn't have permits...among other obvious reasons, 100% of the people will not be 100% happy with the criteria. Marriage, educational level, income--plenty of people of varying circumstances raise children just fine.

My posts in the related thread (I suggested a high level of education in order to have a child) were deliberately sarcastic.

[madmax]

If Democrats want to have 10 kids per family then go ahead but pay for your own damn kids.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by madmax
If Democrats want to have 10 kids per family then go ahead but pay for your own damn kids.

Where did THIS come from?

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Originally posted by Munchkin03
Here they are. I felt that it would be better to have those interested do a websearch, 'cause I didn't want my sources to be attacked as overly left-leaning or feminist. Plus, I originally read about the case in one of my Female Sexuality books, and I couldn't find it (I found it now). Here are two links in addition to Peaches-n-Cream's, from two (I feel) reputable sources.


Summary of the Supreme Court Case from Georgetown Law

From Houghton-Mifflin (textbook publishers)

I originally learned of the story from Angela Davis's Women, Race and Class. She discusses the early birth control movement in general, then she goes into the forced sterilization. Of course, I'm not using this as my sole source of information about it. I consider Georgetown Law, a major textbook maker, and the Harvard School of Public Health pretty impartial sources.

Regardless of your political views, forcing tubal ligations on TEENAGERS (one of the sisters was 12!) should be viewed as SICK, especially when they deliberately hoodwinked the mother into believing it was "just a shot." Each time something like this happens, it pushes us closer to eugenics. And you know who practiced eugenics.

Thanks for the links. I took many women's studies classes, but I don't remember learning of this story.