Controversy

[aabby757]

I was just reading some articles regarding UGA's recruitment, specifically the sorority that "rejected" an African American potential pledge and had to go through racial sensitivity.

This got me thinking about something that I know has been brought up before but thought I could bring it up again.

Isn't the entire rush,invite only, voting process in some way prejudicial? I am not talking just about race.

If you really think about, and am honest, isn't it prejudical to vote no for a young woman who is poor, ugly, overweight, has zits, isn't smart, etc?

I'm just amazed that with how litigious our society has become, a young woman who was voted down on her favorite house hasn't sued. In the work force if a skinny beautiful woman got the job over a fat ugly woman, that second woman could potentially sue and WIN.

Thoughts?

[DZHBrown]

I kind of thought the same thing when I heard that story. While I think it's wrong to deny someone because they are black, why does no one get in a big fuss about fat people being denied? People get rejected from sororities every year. If they all cried out prejudice of some form or fashion, we'd be in trouble. But I don't think that sororities/fraternities are considered "equal opportunity" organizations. Can anyone clarify that one?

So just to recap - I think it is WRONG to deny based on race, but there are lots of things people get denied on that are not cool, too and no one makes issues about it.

[sugar and spice]

I believe most sororities must abide by anti-discrimination rules (except in the matter of gender, of course). Delta Delta Delta's anti-discrimination policy reads "The members of Delta Delta Delta, assembled in Convention for 50th time in the history of the organization, acknowledge and affirm that Delta Delta Delta, in its selection of members, does not discriminate on any basis other than gender, and expressly will not discriminate on the basis of ethnic heritage, national origin, personal appearance, personal beliefs, race, religion, or sexual orientation."

Does that mean that it doesn't happen? Of course not. I'd be willing to bet that at least one of those criteria has been used as justification for cutting during rush at every Tri Delta chapter around the nation.

So why don't more people sue? Well, first of all, I think the most common reason to be cut is the "personal appearance" reason, and most people have more pride than to file a lawsuit saying "Tri Delta cut me because I'm ugly!" (And who even knows how a lawsuit like that would hold up in court!) Furthermore, in most cases there's no proof. Melody Twilley (black rushee at Bama, which's NPC system is basically entirely white) can speculate all she wants that the reason she was cut from every sorority during formal rush is because she was black, but she has no proof for it. The sisters can just smile and say sweetly, "We just didn't find that she fit in with our chapter." I think that the UGA case is one of the few where there was some sort of "proof" that race was one of the deciding factors that this girl wasn't initiated.

[Rose&WhiteGirl]

I definately agree with your statement of voting, gnerally, being a prejudicial action, but there was an incident here at Purdue that relates to the Georgia situation. The problem came when a few members of this particular chapter stated that they did not want this girl in their house because she was of a differenct race. Then came the chaos. Two or three initiated member of this chapter deactivated that night called their National Office and told them about what had happened. They got in trouble, but are still on campus and im not sure what happened to the girls who made the racist comment. Voting someone out because you think shes ugly is more shallow and snooty that discriminatory, the way i see it. Its unfortunate that people still think like this.

[MoxieGrrl]

I think that chapters can get away with discriminating against the "fat & ugly" because they can put it more delicately without specifics-"She doesn't project the image that we want on campus."

To be honest, I don't think that it happens very often though. That's just my opinion and maybe I'm naive. *shrugs*

[Kristin AGD]

I think that the problem still exist. But I think it relates to the schools, and not so much the organizations.

The year the incident at Georgia took place, there was only one african-american woman rushing. Out of 1000 PNMs. I am not surprised that conversations ensued regarding that fact. And the sorority that did not invite her back was not the only one.

Several articles noted that she was unhappy and about to drop out of rush. Surely not because of one sorority. What happens at Georgia, happens other places I am sure. Why should a non-caucasian woman feel so uncomfortable going through the process?? I think these schools should work harder on ways to encourage diversity. If I were 1 out of 1000 I would have wanted to quit too!

[Kristin AGD]

Originally posted by aabby757

If you really think about, and am honest, isn't it prejudical to vote no for a young woman who is poor, ugly, overweight, has zits, isn't smart, etc?

I forgot to reply to this. I agree. I don't see it changing. It is the same thing that kids go through in high school. At some campuses. My campus did not have a problem overlooking zits, weight, etc. But I have visited campuses where the women could not have been more perfect in some groups. Not that they weren't nice. But where did all the others go?

I think it is sad. But we are dealing with impressionable young women. I know that my 19 year old cousins spend a great deal of time and effort on the impressions they make. I would think they would be the same when voting. They would want someone who put out as much effort as they do.

It is a situation that I don't think will ever change.

[CutiePie2000]

Originally posted by aabby757
If you really think about, and am honest, isn't it prejudical to vote no for a young woman who is poor, ugly, overweight, has zits, isn't smart, etc? ...Thoughts?

I think the only way that you would overcome this is if the PNMs were blindfolded throughout rush and so were the sorority members. Crazy sounding, I realize, but true.

[pinkyphimu]

Originally posted by aabby757

If you really think about, and am honest, isn't it prejudical to vote no for a young woman who is poor, ugly, overweight, has zits, isn't smart, etc?


Thoughts?

i think so...luckily, i really never saw this with my chapter. there were people we didn't offer bids to, but the reasons really had nothing to do with their physical apperance. one instance i remember clearly was a PNM had threatened one of the sisters the year before. who wants a member who is going around physically threatening others???

as i am learning more and more about the large sec school rushes, i think that i would never have gotten a bid anywhere. coming out of hs, i had over a 4.0 gpa, was in a zillion things, held 2 jobs, weighed 120lbs, etc., but i really think that i wouldn't have been offered a bid. when jam and carnation talk about all of these wonderful women who go through rush and end up bidless, i know that would be me. what happens to these women? especially if they are legacies and their mothers/ sisters are very involved...they must feel left out... do they eventually look to alum initiation?

[kristi_ann81]

I totally plead ignorant on this one, but wanted to give someone a glimpse of what being in a greek organization at a southern school can do to you! I was an AOII at Georgia Southern University my freshman year. As far as I can remember, there were no african-american girls going through rush, though there were some of other ethnicities. However, the african-american sororities at GSU are pretty big, so I doubt any of them felt compelled to go through rush in the historically white sororities.

Then I transferred to Oglethorpe University, a small D3 liberal arts school. One of my first days on campus I went to a meeting about cheerleading because I was thinking about trying out. Well, at the meeting there were two african-american girls and I noticed they had Chi O lavaliers on. I can honestly say that my first reaction was shock because there were no african-american girls in any of the historically white sororities at GSU. I later learned that 2 of the 3 sororities at OU had a significant african-american membership (in part because there are no historically african-american greek orgs at OU). Now I no longer consider it anything out of the norm, but gosh was it a shock at first!

[AOII_LB93]

Originally posted by kristi_ann81
I totally plead ignorant on this one, but wanted to give someone a glimpse of what being in a greek organization at a southern school can do to you! I was an AOII at Georgia Southern University my freshman year.

You were an AOII? You are an AOII silly!

On my campus it's totally different that it is at schools like UGA, Ole Miss, etc...Our chapter, as well as others are quite diverse, but that is the nature of my university in general. Many women from different ethnic backgrounds join in the recruitment process and become members of the chapters at CSULB.

[momoftwo]

Originally posted by aabby757

I'm just amazed that with how litigious our society has become, a young woman who was voted down on her favorite house hasn't sued. In the work force if a skinny beautiful woman got the job over a fat ugly woman, that second woman could potentially sue and WIN.

Thoughts?

I believe that because sororities and fraternities are private organizations, they can choose to include who they want to include, for whatever reasons.

Look at the controversy over women members at Augusta--Augusta National has the legal right to limit its membership to men. Martha Burke was hoping to sway public opinion and put pressure on the corporations who's executives are members. She didn't go to court to sue, because she wouldn't get very far. (She did go to court over the location of her protest, however.)

[kristi_ann81]

You're right, I AM an AOII! I just meant I was an AOII at Georgia Southern, people are always confused because I did most of college at Oglethorpe Univ and there's no AOII there.

My chapter of AOII was very diverse as well. Actually, I think we were the most diverse on our campus, we just didn't have any african-americans. It was south Georgia, not a whole lot of diversty down there, period! We had this beautiful girl though who was an older sister when I was a pledge and I believe she was from Panama (not Panama City either!) Anyhow, I thought she was simply gorgeous. Glad to hear AOII is diverse in other places as well!

[Jill1228]

Glad this is being discussed!

After reading those articles on the UGA thread...I must sadly say I was NOT surprised

I did grow up on the East Coast (in the South) and as far as rush, it is definitely more diverse in the West. I see more ethnicity and diversity in GLOs out here (on the West Coast) than in the South.

(I have family and friends in both NPCs and NPHCs)

I know someone who was interested in rushing an NPC (a few years back). During freshman orientation (in a Southern School), she stopped by the NPC table. She was told (and I quote her) "the Greek system is segregated, that's the way it is. If you want to be a member of a GLO, then join a black one". End of subject. (She is biracial). WTF?

If it is said, "the reason minority women are not in our GLOs is because they don't sign up for rush". I wonder why?????
Unfortunately in some schools they are not exactly made to feel welcome!

Kinda like "what the hell is she doing here?" And IF they are lucky they will make it past the first round. DAMN lucky if they make it past round 2!

It cuts both ways though...I can guess the same thing would happen if a White or Asian person wanted to join an NPHC...the "what is their motive? what the hell are they doing?"

Input? Thoughts? Let's TAWK amongst ourselves!

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by Jill1228
If it is said, "the reason minority women are not in our GLOs is because they don't sign up for rush". I wonder why?????
Unfortunately in some schools they are not exactly made to feel welcome!

I definately agree! All the articles mentioned that the woman dropped out of rush after a few days because she felt uncomfortable.

The TIME article also mentioned how minority women also ended up dropping out of their chapters because they didn't feel comfortable and because of certain things that had happened within their chapter that had racial tones.

From the TIME article: http://www.time.com/time/education/a...,59389,00.html

Another student, Alana Young, a Filipino American, says she left the sorority in 1998 because of racist attitudes. She overheard a sister say she had been taught that "n_____s work in the house and Mexicans work in the yard." Young says she saw a Mexican-American member of the sorority leave a meeting in tears after the sisters overruled her objection to putting a Confederate flag on a T-shirt. Young finally quit after sorority members criticized her for giving her phone number to a black football player.

Like Kristin AGD mentioned, I think the issue has to do more with individual school's chapters and not so much the overall organization.

I'm almost certain all sororities & fraternities have some kind of anti-discriminatory clauses, but some chapters might discriminate more so than others. Like for example the XY chapter of ABC might be more picky about grades, looks, or whatever more so than the CD chapter of ABC is. And it is probably because the XY chapter is probably at a more cut-throat school than CD is.

(sorry if all the alphabets are confusing, I'm just trying to make an example )