Holly's Law

[Lady Pi Phi]

I don't know if this a story in the US, but here in Toronto it's huge.
For those that don't know the story (* Warning, it's brutal),
Holly Joes was a 10 year old girl living in Toronto's west end (not far from where I live). She left her house one day and never returned. 24 hours later her boudy was found on the shores of Toronto's Ward Island. She had been sexually assulted and her body had been dismemebered and stuffed into large duffle bags. They are still on the hunt for her killer.

Now, currently there is a website Holly's Law and it is a petition to change laws, basically giving, anyone convicted of child molestation, a life sentence. Now, while I am for this law, I have a question for the GC lawyers and law students. Can a petition signed over the web at anytime be a legal document? I'm just wondering, because there are no signatures. Can judge take it seriously enough to make new legislation?

Now keep in mind I am not asking anyone to sign this (I mean you can if you want), I just put the link up for people that were interested in reading what the site had to say. I was just curious on the legal side of this petition. I just don't want this to turn into a heated debate where it ends up that people just hurl insults back an forth (and we all know this happens).

Thankyou.

[kddani]

I just checked out the site, very interesting, especially since right now i'm working on a paper for our Law Review Write-On competition on Megan's Law's. Every state in the US has one of these laws, and it's somewhat similar- basically it requires all sex offenders to register with the law enforcement agency whereever they live and allows the dissemination of this information. The specifics vary from state to state, but most have websites with the info, other communities actually will have door-to-door campaigns to alert people of sex offenders in their neighborhoods.

As for the admissibility of the petition and validity- I guess it wouldn't be much different from a normal, written petition. It does ask for specific info, so you could easily weed out all the "Ima Jackoff"s and "Mike Hunt"s from the list. As for how much weight it would hold, i'm not sure. I'm not very familiar with the Canadian court system.

I think that it would be more effective for concerned people to contact their legislators. But once again, I know nothing of the Canadian system of government. Just using what I know about the US to conjecture. Thus far, Megan's Laws have been upheld by the Supreme Court of the US.

[steelepike]

LIFE sentence, thats steep. too steep i think. i know i am against child molestation but life? i didn't see anything about a life sentence on that site.

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by steelepike
LIFE sentence, thats steep. too steep i think. i know i am against child molestation but life? i didn't see anything about a life sentence on that site.

No, you are right, actually it his asking to have immediate hearings to declare sex offenders as dangerous offenders. If they were to be declared as dangerous offenders it would be up to the system to decide if and when they could be released. usually dangerous offenders serve life or very long sentences.

[steelepike]

well thats ok then. but maybe we should up the punishments. you steal there goes a hand you commit rape you know what is lost and so on.

[bethany1982]

Life may seem steep, but the sad fact about molesters is that they repeat their crime over and over and usually fail any attempt at rehab. In the US, sexual offenders who are incarcerated have had an average of 65 victims. For the most part, they are predators who cannot function in society. Lock them up and keep them there!

[kddani]

Originally posted by bethany1982
Life may seem steep, but the sad fact about molesters is that they repeat their crime over and over and usually fail any attempt at rehab. In the US, sexual offenders who are incarcerated have had an average of 65 victims. For the most part, they are predators who cannot function in society. Lock them up and keep them there!

65? Are you sure about that? Where'd you get that number?

I'm just randomly interested. This paper i'm writing is closed source, so we're limited to only these resources, but I haven't seen that number anywhere.

Just curious

[swissmiss04]

Originally posted by steelepike
well thats ok then. but maybe we should up the punishments. you steal there goes a hand you commit rape you know what is lost and so on.

Hey lots of countries do that and their crime rates are miniscule. But they also have laws about stoning adulterers to death. Wouldn't nobody be around if they did that here. I for one do agree w/ locking up child molesters for life. It does seem harsh, but how would you feel if some sicko sexually assaulted, say, your little sister or cousin? And if someone would do that once, the statistics show they'll do it again. You can rehabilitate a drug user, but sexual offenders are much harder to rehab because of all the underlying issues leading to their deviant behaviors.

[steelepike]

sometimes there are people who get that charge and it was an isolated case or even worse it really wasn't molestation it was something else. there was a story i read about a guy who didn't molest anyone but did commit something else but was labeled as a child sex offender so he had to let people in his neighborhood know what he did. This is also an invasion of peoples privacy, and their right to obscurity.

[bethany1982]

Originally posted by kddani
65? Are you sure about that? Where'd you get that number?

I'm just randomly interested. This paper i'm writing is closed source, so we're limited to only these resources, but I haven't seen that number anywhere.

Just curious

Library research. It was a Dept of Justice figure. I wrote a paper on the subject last semester. The stats are staggering. Some reports I read place the figure much higher.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by bethany1982
Life may seem steep, but the sad fact about molesters is that they repeat their crime over and over and usually fail any attempt at rehab. In the US, sexual offenders who are incarcerated have had an average of 65 victims. For the most part, they are predators who cannot function in society. Lock them up and keep them there!

cite please? that's a pretty big number to produce from thin air (not that it's infeasible, just would like support for your argument)

[valkyrie]

Plus there's the horrible fact that sometimes there are false charges brought against innocent people. I've heard of cases where school children band together to accuse a disliked teacher of molesting them, or cases when a mother basically brainwashes her child into thinking that her father molested her so the mother can get full custody. Sick, twisted things like that happen, and I would hate to see one person get falsely convicted in a case like that and then get locked up for life.

At least in the United States, judges do not make legislation.

[kddani]

Originally posted by steelepike
sometimes there are people who get that charge and it was an isolated case or even worse it really wasn't molestation it was something else. there was a story i read about a guy who didn't molest anyone but did commit something else but was labeled as a child sex offender so he had to let people in his neighborhood know what he did. This is also an invasion of peoples privacy, and their right to obscurity.

What did he do then? A lot of times it's not just child sex offenders, sometimes it's also people who committed an aggravated sexual offense. Also it depends on the state on how the information is given out, but it's not likely that he had to do it itself. But even if he didn't "molest"- if he was still improperly touching a child, etc. it's still in effect. No intercourse has to happen.

The Supreme Court says registering sex offenders is not an invasion of privacy- it's a dissemination of already public information. The information is on public record- as are ALL criminal convictions. The state has a compelling interest in protecting the well being of it's citizens.

BTW- there's no explicit constitutional right to privacy. That's been created through case law and the like. It's not absolute either, if the government has a strong enough interest to override it. And there's absolutely no "right to obscurity", whatever that is.

Gotta love being a law student You know way too much about certain things that you wish you didn't.

[kddani]

Originally posted by valkyrie

At least in the United States, judges do not make legislation.

True. But they do have a lot of power in interpretting the laws.

[steelepike]

i never ment privacy i ment obscurity, ie the person just being a hermit. i think a person should have the right to be a hermit if not then that is yet another proof this country is messed up.