What would you do if your friend.....

[AKA2D '91]

Soror, you may want to do a search (here or Greek life) from this past summer. I think "we" discussed this somewhat. I cannot remember the title of the thread, but I think this (unwed mothers submitting) was "discussed".

[Sexy Mocha]

Everybody's entitled to their own opinions. I think I stated it very clearly in my post that it wasn't my friend's sexuality I had a problem with, it was the fact that she felt she couldn't tell me.
We ALL have got issues with one thing or another, whether it be with single mothers trying to join sororities, people who practice sex before marriage, folks who smoke weed, Grad vs. Undergrad....it's no different than having an issue with someone who is homosexual. It all falls into the same judgemental, self-righteous, holier than thou category that some of us would hate to think we're a part of. As long as we don't go around forcing our feelings and views on the people we have a problem with...then it's all good. Like I stated we all have opinions...and that's just what they are. None better, none worse than anyone else's.
As I read everyone's post over, I realized that most everyone, in a nut shell, said that they would still remain friends with the person , despite their sexuality...so where does the self-righteousness come into play?

[This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited November 30, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited November 30, 2000).]

[MIDWESTDIVA]

I believe that I read in a previous post in this thread that someone was not able to condone their friend's behavior and that they were ministering to them. I assumed she meant ministering about homosexuality, but I may be wrong. I don't think it is appropriate to preach to your friends just because you don't approve of their sexual preferences. That to me seems to be self righteous. I'm all for offering advice, but preaching and advising are 2 different things.

[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited November 30, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited November 30, 2000).]

[Discogoddess]

For me, the self-righteousness is that many of us sound condescending, like we in our perfection are deigning to still be friends with our gay loved ones, as if somehow we are better. Personally, I'm not sure I can agree that homosexuality is a sin on par with the ones I named in my earlier post, but my point there was to highlight the fact that we all fall short of the "rules" we (if we claim to be Christ-like) have come up to believe in. I think it sounds ridiculous.

For me, having an issue, or deciding to love my family/friends "in spite of" their "sin" of being gay is like a white friend saying they're going to love me "in spite of" my being an inferior black person, because to them, being black is someone a problem. My color and my sexuality are unchangeable, so I don't see how someone could or should judge me about them...so I wouldn't think about doing the same to someone else. People's behavior, now that's a different story!

Also, I don't think most gay people choose a life that seems destined for rejection, pain and sometimes, violence, in such a homophobic society.

[Epitome]

Discogoddess,

I totally agree with you on this. I think all too often, Christians come off as judgemental, when there is only one Judge.

Another point: I know there are people out there who are "confused" or who "experiment," but people who are absolutely, positively gay did not "choose" to be that way, no more than I "chose" to be black or a woman or heterosexual. Therefore, I don't see how being gay can be a sin. People choose to steal, lie, commit adultery, murder, etc., all of which are sins. They DON'T choose to be gay!

------------------
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle

[Sexy Mocha]

And saying "I have issues with unmarried mothers, especially those trying to join my sorority" DOES NOT sound condescending? I've had this same conversation with my friend hundreds of times. I find that some people like to put degrees on what they believe is wrong and right...I call it the "Pick and Choose" Syndrome. It's where, let's say, you can condemn a woman who sleeps around...or someone that has premarital sex....(Because you don't do it). BUT...you smoke weed or you drink all night and get up and go to church a few hours later. The latter, however, is not seen as being on the same degree as the former...because you know that's what YOU do. And if you doing it, it can't be all that bad. And what I'm saying is unless God came down and affirmed that we are, infact, holier than thou.....we can not go around picking and choosing what is immoral and what isn't (i.e. I'm against unwed mothers joining my sorority, but...I think it's wrong for people to have ill feelings against homosexuality) I feel if you're going to be an advocate for one, do the same for the other...that is if you're truly all for not judging others.
Listen, I'll be the first to admit I'm not perfect...but NONE of us are. A lot of our feelings come from personal experiences. if you have a best friend, sister, etc. who is gay...then, of course, you're going to get upset if someone speaks out against homosexuality. If that same sister or best friend had a baby out of wedlock and later down the line wanted to pledge a sorority...and someone tried to down them....you'd be mad as heck. We all can stand to learn a lesson in accepting EVERYONEequally for who they are regardless of their sexual preference or the circumstances of how their kids came into the world.
As far as the comment on not comparing people who lie, cheat, have premarital sex, etc. to those people who are gay (because they can't help being gay...it's how God made them)....I'm not trying to even get into that subject. I, personally, don't have a problem with anyone gay, straight, whore or otherwise....I'm too busy worrying about myself to try and go around pondering what's right and wrong in other people's lives. I leave that to the all the Socrates of the world.


[This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited November 30, 2000).]

[DoggyStyle82]

DISCOGODDESS and MIDWESTDIVA: what is wrong with people having standards and convictions? Why condemn people for their religious beliefs. I saw no replies here that wanted to burn homosexuals at the stake or condemn them to hell. For those that support their friends deviant sexuality and actually cheer it on ("more power to you" and the like), would you cheer on their alcoholism, promiscuity, thievery? The answer would be a resounding no. Why not? Because you have standards, thats why. My cousin, who was my best friend as a teenager shocked everyone, me biggest of all, when he came out. One day he was a regular guy ( a former Marine and cop), with a girlfriend, next day, he is dressed in pink short shorts, pink legwarmers, and pink hi-top Converse sneaks (really). I felt betrayed and confused. I don't condemn him. He is still a good guy who loves his family and is still my blood, but his lifestyle is no longer conducive to a good relationship between us. Am I homphobic? No. I hate no one (except Uncle Toms, perps and traitors)That lifestyle is wrong to me. But that is my personal belief, based on concrete standards of what MANHOOD is and represents. I still love him and he is welcome at my home (without his hairdresser friends and gay nightclub buddies). recently he has swung back to having a girlfriend and eliminated the flamboyant behavior. Bottom line is anyone has a right to the lifestyle that makes them happy, but others don't have to accept it (even friends). I have given up life long friendships with drug dealers, thieves, and crack addicts. Am I wrong for having standards with their behavior. I have not invoked God, Christianity, or sin, just personal standards. Peace and Greek love

[MIDWESTDIVA]

Hello Doggystyle82,

It is nice to see that you're back in the swing of things. Now on to your post. There is nothing wrong with people having standards and convictions. I have them too. But you will never hear me say "Yeah, we're friends, even though she's a lesbian, or even though she has 3 kids with 3 different baby daddys, or even though she likes to "swing" (if you know what I mean). My point is that my friend's bedroom business is none of my business.

I'm not saying that it is never appropriate to end a friendship. There are times when it is necessary to do so. If I had drug dealers or thieves as friends, I think I would get new friends. Not only because I don't approve of drug dealing and thievery, but because the potential exists that I would suffer right along with them as a result of their lawbreaking (guilt by association). I don't think that is being self righteous. I think that is just being sensible.

[Diva_56]

I don't personally think that I am being self-righteous because I know that Jesus told me that "There is not one righteous, no not one." Just because I have a issue with homosexuality does not mean I am not entitled to my opinion or how I judge others. I will not judge people HYPOCRITICALLY, which Jesus was refering to when he made the statement... "Judge not there fore you not be judged" (Paraphrasing of course) I have to judge things on every level of my life, like when to cross the street or what shoes I buy, but I cannot judge on things that I am doing MYSELF... or what I don't expect others to question me on as far as my character...this is what is meant by Jesus' statement. We all cannot pick and choose which laws to live by because with God we must live by them ALL according to his word. And being a christian I read His word and find Him condeming the homosexuality lifestyle, not the person. This is what I will do for Ms. K (You know who you are hon ) and for anyone else...


just some truth from the DIVA.

[Poplife]

Hmm. If my friend was a lesbian I'd just shrug and say "I know," because my gaydar is pretty good.

But on the real, I have a few lesbian friends and after hearing some of the things that they go through I have come to the conclusion that they don't really wake up one morning and decide to be gay. I could talk all day about some of the things I have been told, but that is another story. If my friend waited so long to tell me (or I was just not paying attention) I would assume it was because she was she was worried. These things come with enough consequences. I would never make the loss of my friendship one of them.

As far as the unwed mothers issue. I like to say that alot of women have sex, a few women got proof.

That's all I have to say about that.

[MIDWESTDIVA]

Based on posts in this thread and others (ie RU-486 where I was condemned to hell by this person) I have come to the conclusion that Ms. BoogiedownB (you know who you are sweetie ) is a self righteous individual. I am entitled to my opinion. Don't get your panties all in a bunch. The two DIVAS will just have to agree to disagree on religious subject matter.

[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited November 30, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited November 30, 2000).]

[AKA2D '91]

Originally posted by Poplife:
Hmm. If my friend was a lesbian I'd just shrug and say "I know," because my gaydar is pretty good.
LOL

That's all I have to say about that.

LOL

[Poplife]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91:
LOL

*lol*

Well, it is!!

[Wonderful1908]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sexy Mocha:
[b]And saying "I have issues with unmarried mothers, especially those trying to join my sorority" DOES NOT sound condescending? I've had this same conversation with my friend hundreds of times. I find that some people like to put degrees on what they believe is wrong and right...I call it the "Pick and Choose" Syndrome. It's where, let's say, you can condemn a woman who sleeps around...or someone that has premarital sex....(Because you don't do it). BUT...you smoke weed or you drink all night and get up and go to church a few hours later. The latter, however, is not seen as being on the same degree as the former...because you know that's what YOU do.
Very good point, I will try to not to add fuel to the topic of unwed mothers but I truly can't see how that is an indication of the work one will do or the type of soror one will be for Alpha Kappa Alpha!

[Conskeeted19]

Sorors and others,

What would you do if your best friend of 10, 15, 20 years told you that she was a lesbian? This happened to me. I will tell you what I did after I read some of your responses.

Conskeeted19

You are the master of your own destiny!