RU-486

[Diva_56]

Reguardless fo whether they are in the same sphere or not... Aborting a baby (killing a fetus in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, trimester) is TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY WRONG! I am so tired of society making an excuse for this crime against humanity. I am pro life... when it comes to a woman making a decision about "Her Body" according to the government, she has the right to kill another human being because it's inconvient for her? It is really sad that women THINK thay have a CHOICE in how a baby's life will end. Get Jesus and realize that all LIFE IS PRECIOUS!

Psalms 22:9-10
"Yet you brought me out of the
womb;
you made me trust in you
even at my mother's breast.
From my mothers womb you have
been my God."

If God thinks so highly of David's life even IN THE WOMB, how in the world does another human have the audacity to think that they HAVE THE RIGHT to kill a baby in the womb?
Respectfully...Get a clue!

Just some truth from the Diva!


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In complete darkness we are all the same... It is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us... Don't let your eyes deceive you

Janet Jackson

[This message has been edited by Diva_56 (edited October 03, 2000).]

[BrandNubian]

Originally posted by Diva_56:
Reguardless fo whether they are in the same sphere or not... Aborting a baby (killing a fetus in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, trimester) is TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY WRONG! I am so tired of society making an excuse for this crime against humanity. I am pro life... when it comes to a woman making a decision about "Her Body" according to the government, she has the right to kill another human being because it's inconvient for her? It is really sad that women THINK thay have a CHOICE in how a baby's life will end. Get Jesus and realize that all LIFE IS PRECIOUS!

Diva:

IMO, abortion is a very complicated issue. Abortion is not an isolated event, nor is it a self-contained phenomenon. Abortion is part of something more systemic. Maybe what people need is Jesus (or Allah, or Buddha, or the Creator), but who can say? And just putting that out there does not solve the problem.

I am more than respectful of your spiritual path and beliefs, so please don't take this the wrong way, but quoting scripture will not solve all of the issues that a person inevitably has to consider when talking about abortion. The reality is, a more holistic and complete sexual education is needed to educate everyone (especially women) about their bodies, their sexuality (not just the act of sex), the choices available to them, the consequences of certain choices, ways to protect themselves, ways to be healthy sexual beings, ways to be spiritual and sexual.

I think one of the key problems with abortion is that lack of effective sexual education. Perhaps if we had better sexual education, we wouldn't have as much pregnancy or abortion. Perhaps if we didn't live in a culture that is simultaneously oversexed (we use sex to present/sell everything!) and sexually repressed, pregnancy and abortion wouldn't be such problems either. Just a few theories.

Don't get me started...I could talk about this for hours.

I don't think folks on this forum are saying it's necessarily right to abort an unborn child. I think they are saying the problem is more complex than that. For me, I don't think you could do away with RU-486 or legal abortion in general, and think that abortion or the issues surrounding it would just disappear.

Abortion is not the cause of the problems; rather, it is just the result of the interaction between our cultural and social belief systems and customs.

Once again, I mean no disrespect to you. I do think a spiritual foundation is needed. It's just not all that's needed, IMO. I respect your views. And I must apologize for the long post; abortion is a heated topic for me.

I thought I would just drop my two cents.

Peace Love and Progression
B.N.


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"I thought making a record and receiving some form of public affirmation would bring me the love I desired in my life, only to find that what I wanted no one could give, and what I searched for lived in my heart waiting to be discovered."
-Me'shell Ndegeocello

[This message has been edited by BrandNubian (edited October 03, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by BrandNubian (edited October 03, 2000).]

[Teresa2000]

What do you think about the FDA approval of RU-486 (French Abortion Pil).

-Teresa

[Lynn Luckett]

I think that we may be opening up a can of worms. This may lower the unwanted baby population, but what long term affects will it have on our bodies. If a person is 4 or 5 months will the pill be successful in aborting the baby?

Conskeeted Skee Wee

[Discogoddess]

Diva_56:

I'm sorry you feel it necessary to get angry to make your point. I have a clue, and an opinion, just as you do. Truth is, in this world, a subjective reality, and I don't think by telling people to "get Jesus," or "get a clue," that you are persuading those with opposing or unclear views to consider your side.

BrandNubian: I thought your last post was thoughtful and thought-provoking.

[LadyAKA]

Sitting in church last night (REVIVAL WEEK) my teacher mentioned how the bible is sometimes taken out of context. Diva_56, I see your point and I know exactly what the word says also, but I must say this is your opinion and interpretation of the word. I am not for killing "JUST BECAUSE" but seriously you need to think about the women in the situation. Would you like to be "so called inconvenienced" if you were raped and then impregnated??

Just questions and opinions ... we all have them!!

[BrandNubian]

Originally posted by Discogoddess:

BrandNubian: I thought your last post was thoughtful and thought-provoking.

Discogoddess:

Thank you.

Peace Love and Progression
B.N.

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"I thought making a record and receiving some form of public affirmation would bring me the love I desired in my life, only to find that what I wanted no one could give, and what I searched for lived in my heart waiting to be discovered."
-Me'shell Ndegeocello

[AlwaysDivine]

DIVA:


I too would like to know how you feel impregnation by rape and/incest should be handled. I just know you can't POSSIBLY be saying a woman should HAVE to have a baby under those horrible conditions - that just CAN'T be what you think. Maybe I misunderstood you. I am not trying to be rude, but, I am seriously curious to UNDERSTAND what you are saying. Is that what you believe? And if so - how would you handle the descision if your daughter (real or hypothetical) were RAPED and impregnated?

Just some questions.

[misskriss01]

I was going to ask the SAME question.

What if a woman has been brutally raped and the attacker impregnates her??

What about a young woman who doesn't find out she's HIV positive until she gets pregnant and there is a likely chance she'll pass the disease to her baby?

What about a child who is 13 years old and gets pregnant by mistake because she didn't know any better?

For me, personally, abortion is not a choice for me. But, there are some women out there who get a "bad deal"... What about them?

[Me By Nature]

This topic is so complicated. I am pro-life and don't believe that unborn babies should be killed. It's hard for me to understand how Christians can be pro-choice. I am christian and am BY NO MEANS perfect. Trust me, the Lord has A LOT of work to do with me so I am not trying to take the holier-than-thou road because, quite truthfully, I just don't qualify. However, I happen to know that the Lord does not make mistakes. And if you trust in Him and His Word than some of the reasons stated for having an abortion
don't measure up. Take this scenario, a teenage girl and boyfriend are having an intimate relationship and she gets pregnant. She has no job, no education, and her boyfriend is a striaght BUM. Should she get an abortion? I am taking an educated guess that most people who said they were pro-choice would say that she should have an abortion, but how is that fair to the unborn child? How is it fair that this baby can never experience life? Alright, she won't have much money, will have to wear second hand clothes, and might possibly go to bed hungry some nights. Can you honestly say that the child would have been better off dead? I know so many people who grew up deprived, some were abused- physically and verbally, and some grew up dead broke the conditions were truly deplorable. But, they grew up- and learned from there past and are going on with healthy lives. Lives that might not have come to be if they were aborted because the family didn't have money, or the mother was too young with no education, or the mother was forced to have the baby. I am not saying that all will turn out alright. But they at least need that chance. This is long and I am sorry, but I would not have right if I just passed by tne topic without responding.
I don't see people who choose to have abortions any different than I see myself who is "shacking" with my boyfriend. None of us are perfect and none will ever be. We all have things we need to work on. All I am saying is that we will never know what will be because we can't see the bigger picture, we have to trust and believe in God. And for those who say that it is more complicated than that (trusting and believing in God), I don't know what else to say to you.

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"Trust in the Lord God With All Thine Heart, Lean not unto your own understanding..."

[AlwaysDivine]

Me By Nature:

Just for clarification...are you saying a woman SHOULD be made to have a baby that is the result of rape or incest? I don't see where you answered that. I do see however where you talked of it not being fair for a child to be deprived of a life. Technically -it is not a child during that time and from what I have read - has no concept of pain or deprivation. There are already so many deprived, unhappy, uncared for, unprovided for, unwanted, horribly treated, misdirected children in the world because of inadequate parents. Why bring more into the world to suffer. You stated that GOD does not make mistakes, but dear, GOD gave man and women free choice. WHICH MEANS - maybe GOD isn't DIRECTLY involved with the process. (don't you guys jump on me - I said directly involved, rather than not involved) People are allowed to choose to have unprotected sex, to rape, to commit incest, to be careless, and to use defective birth control. That does not mean a child should have to suffer through a life of possible hardship because of irresponsible behavior or unforseen circumstances.
BUT............

I am interested in your answer to the first question I asked. I REALLY REALLY AM

Sorry for the long post - but I just know too many people who have children that they resent, degrade, and mistreat the children they were forced to have and/or chose to have simply becuase they were taught abortions were wrong.

Question: How hard is it for a 12 year old CHILD to love a HIV infected baby that is the product of rape?

[Ania]

I don't mean to start an uproar but there is a saying, "Do not pass judgement on.....".
Another thing, the word, "abortion" is not mentioned or given reference to in the bible. It's your choice to take it out of text.
As someone who is not only pro-choice(BY THE WAY, I think most people on earth would consider themselves, Pro-Life), I attend conferences and lobby to make sure that reproductive choices are a right and available for all women, regardless of color, class, religion, etc., (health clinics, gyn. exams at low cost or free, birth control, and yes abortions).
Through my research, I've found out that a lot of Anti-Choice groups make it seem like abortions are done by the bad teens, hookers, loose women, and those other bad people. And these types of people are having this procedure done late in the pregnacy, when in fact, "1.4 percent occur in second half of pregnancy usually when there is severe complication"(mother may die, fetus developed with no brain or organs missing, two heads, etc. (Journal of the Amer. Medical Association, Aug. 26, 1998.) When in fact, 55% of these responsible, usually educated, well incomed women already have at least one child.
Abortions are not dangerous(fewer than 1 out of 100,000 have complications(Journal of Amer. Medical Ass., Dec. 9, 1992) and it DOES NOT cause psychological damage or moral decline.
I have many issues that would be a website in itself but I will say this. All women that go through this are not bad people. And some Christian groups go to far by claiming "PRO-LIFE", then shooting doctors(Barnett Slepian in NY), nurses, and volunteers.("From 1984-2000, around 2500 acts of violence were committed against health care workers that provided abortions", National Abortion Federation). Not to mention, some of these same groups that stand out side of these clinics, WILL NOT OFFER TO ADOPT these poor children(especially if they are of color. Let's face the truth.)
If these groups succeed in making abortions illegal(which this will actually kill women, because abortions are going to happen anyway), the next thing that is going to be fought against is your birth control pills and shots.
I hope this large(but little) bit of information will open your eyes a little. I apologize for the length.

[Ania]

I was typing so fast, let me make sure I make myself clear.
ONLY 1.4 of abortions happen in the second half of pregnancy.
The women are just like you and I. Women who seek these services are not always loose women, etc. Most of them(55%) already have at least one child, are well educated, or have a decent job.
I lobby for other things too and this information is usually provided by the American Medical Association Journal, The National Abortion Federation, and regular stats provided on the internet.

[AlwaysDivine]

Ania....

I fully AGREE with you lady. I hope you post more information on this topic soon.

[Eclipse]

Whew! Hot topic!! Like someone else said, abortion is a complex topic with no easy answers--especially if you have an ounce of compassion in your body. That being said, as a Christian, I believe that God is involved with EVERYTHING that happens in this world--the good the bad and the ugly. Does that means that he caused a 13 year old girl to get molested by her HIV infected uncle? Does it mean that he 'caused' this girl to get pregnant and also infected with HIV? No, I don't believe that God 'caused' these things to happen, but I do believe that he allowed them to happen (look at the situation with Job). I also believe that His ways are not my ways and that I cannot question or try to change what He has allowed to happen. The more I learn about His Holy word, the more pro-life I become. I still sometimes have a hard time reconciling this with my flesh, but I can't see where the Bible would condone this. That being said, if I, or my (future) daughter was raped and conceived, I would ask the Lord to give me the strength to carry the baby to term. I would also seek his guidance about raising the child. I firmly believe that if He led me to raise the child he would give me everything I needed to do it with out bitterness.

There was an e-mail going around a while back that told of the situations that several pregnant women were in. All told of horrible situations, no father, teen aged mother, rape, diseases, poverty, etc.--all things we use today as 'good reasons' for abortion. It asked the question: "Would you advise this woman to have an abortion?" Then came the 'punch line'. All of the children grew up to be accomplished leaders and history makers that the world would be deprived of had the women done the "sensible thing" and aborted their babies.

I think the best thing that any of us can do, no matter what side of the fence we stand on, is to do everything in our power to reduce the need for abortions--be it by RU-486 or any other method. And, for those of us who are pro-life, we need to make sure we are doin more than just sitting on the sidelines tsk-tsking about the moral decline of our world and the need for "Jesus". We need to be showing folks the Jesus in us by mentoring teen mothers, lobbying for access to health care, low cost day care, etc.!

[This message has been edited by Eclipse (edited October 04, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Eclipse (edited October 04, 2000).]