Ritual and Pin collectors

[theGLOdefender]

feel sorry for the people that collect rituals and pins. The only exception would be for people that collect only their own GLO materials. People that collect pins that are not in a GLO, are not too bad because they have no idea what they mean to the members of the GLO's. People that are in GLO that collect other GLO's pins should know better especially if their own pin means anything to them. Ritual collectors are the worst. If a person is in a GLO and collects other GLO's rituals, they are pitiful people. They probably get a thrill trading their own GLO information just to learn something they are not supposed to know about other organization. Maybe it gives them a sick kind of pleasure. Those who collect GLO rituals will claim to be legitimate researchers. What are they researching for? A tell all book? Maybe. For their own sick pleasure? Probably. Chris is the worst of all these people. If I find out that members of GLO's are trading rituals, I will be happy to turn them in to their headquarters. I do not imagine they would be too happy even if they claim it is just "research".

[HotDamnImAPhiMu]

There's been a bunch of threads about this; I bet if you search for them they'll turn up. wptw especially has an interesting take on the whole situation.

[AchtungBaby80]

Oh, Gawd, not this again...

[archangel689]

Why can't it just be as simple as the
national "giving", "lending" pins through initiation.

The price of the pin would be covered in the initiation fee.... BUT it would not be the property of the person wearing it. It would be the property of the National. And if someone tried to sell pins off, it would be selling stolen property.
Might require some consitutional changes, etc. but it probably could be done.

[FuzzieAlum]

I'm not aware of many ritual collectors. Pin collectors, sure. And like many people, I am not fond of it, but I'd rather they collected pins, I suppose, than rituals, unless it is legitmate scholarly research and the GLOs are OK with it.

But what good will turning these people in do? I know a collegiate Greek life administrator who is also a pin collector (and Greek himself). I can't help but think that *someone* important must already be aware of his hobby, and if they haven't sanctioned him yet, they're not going to!

[wptw]

Oh gawd, indeed. Archangel689, no offense, but this ground is well covered. Just search "ebay" and you'll get all the juicy threads.


GLOdefender, feel free to report them ALL to their national HQs if that will assuage your outrage. Since several of the badge collectors and a handful of ritual researchers are in fact national officers of their respective HQs, I doubt it's going to ruffle a lot of feathers.

In fact, I believe Beta wrote an article in their magazine praising one of their members who collects badges. And in my particular case, it was a national officer of my group that got me started in both these areas of study many years ago.

I don't find myself particularly pitiful, but if you're inclined to sacrifice your valuable time and effort in pitying me, then I'm quite flattered. Pity away!

BTW... If a tell-all book about rituals was my goal, it would have been published years ago, the checks would have been cashed and I would be writing this from a lounge chair outside my beachside hut in Fiji (the island, not the fraternity ). Oh, and for the record, I've never revealed any portion of my ritual to a non-member. That's a vow I take very seriously. And also for the record, I do get a "thrill" out of learning things, though I wouldn't characterize it as a "sick pleasure". GLOdefender, perhaps if you also enjoyed the thrill of learning something then you wouldn't be such a glaring ignoramus.

wptw

[theGLOdefender]

I do not have a problem with pin collectors in general. I just do not agree with it. I do have a problem with ritual collectors. I agree that members of GLO's would never be expelled for pin trading with a few exceptions.
Ritual traders are the worst. They are just people that get off knowing other peoples' secrets. They call themselves researchers but they really are not because it is for their own personal information. They claim that they reveal other GLO's secrets but the do it frequently when they traded them. I know for a fact there are several ritual traders on here, one is very obvious. I wonder if they will care if I out them. Overall, I think they will not be well liked. Mr. F please don't try to justify yourself most of us realize the truth

[Kevin]

Honestly... who cares?

Your badge is sacred only because you know what it means! If you want to collect badges of other GLO's just head on over to

Masters of Design

I just find it laughable that someone would be willing to pay (as a collector) FAR above retail for a badge when they could get one just as easily from the original source (with any engraving they want!)

Without meaning, your badge is just jewelry. The badge is not the organization though. It is a symbol of it. The MEMBERS are the organization. Last I checked no one collected GLO members.. Except maybe student governments, CEO search committees, etc..

[Kevin]

As for ritual collectors.. They are not NEARLY as culpable as the chapter that lost control of their ritual materials.

[bruinaphi]

Originally posted by ktsnake
Honestly... who cares?

Your badge is sacred only because you know what it means! If you want to collect badges of other GLO's just head on over to

Masters of Design

I just find it laughable that someone would be willing to pay (as a collector) FAR above retail for a badge when they could get one just as easily from the original source (with any engraving they want!)

Without meaning, your badge is just jewelry. The badge is not the organization though. It is a symbol of it. The MEMBERS are the organization. Last I checked no one collected GLO members.. Except maybe student governments, CEO search committees, etc..

We have hashed and rehashed many of these issues before but I think it is importnat to point out that for some older GLOs there is a lot more too their badge history than Masters of Design. Originally, my GLO did not have a uniform badge and our older badges are a treasured part of our history. Our Constitution does provide that the badge is the property of the member for her lifetime, but that hasn't stopped many badge collectors from buying old badges that have wound up on ebay and keeping an important part of our Fraternal History.

[wptw]

GLOdefender, I don’t feel the need to justify myself. My words and my actions speak for themselves. I stand by them.

You’ve made some statements about ritual researchers, and I disagree with what you’ve said. Moreover, I feel you’re in no position to make an informed comment about the researchers themselves since I assume you are not one of them. So any observations you might make about what motivates me, what I do with the information, etc., are bound to be fatally flawed.

Yes, there are a handful of GC regulars who study rituals. You may indeed have the means to “out” all of us. I’m not sure what you would hope to accomplish by that, but if it’s within your power and you have a mind to do it, then I won’t worry about trying to stop you. Just don’t expect to sit back afterwards and wait for all of us to be expelled from our respective groups, since in many cases our HQ members are not only aware of it, but actively participate in it. Legitimate ritual research has gone on for more than century, and I assure you it’s not the evil conspiracy you imagine.

By the way, who is this “us” you speak of when you say “most of us realize the truth”? You’ve made 2 posts here at GC (though I suspect your current username is but a new sock on an old hand). Do you already imagine yourself part of some GC majority opinion? On what basis? And for that matter, what is this “truth” you’re going on about?

I am already not, as you say, “well-liked” on GC – except maybe by Jacqueline who apparently is reminded of her DAD when she reads my posts (ouch, that was a blow to the old ego, but a sweet sentiment nonetheless). Is the threat of message board ostracism supposed to make me mend my evil ways?

Anyway, do what you’ve gotta do. If you want to debate the issue further, I’m certainly up for it. But first you need to get past the threats and the cloak and dagger clandestine crap and actually articulate your point.

wptw

[alphaiota]

quite frankly i'd love to know ritual for other glo's. but i've decided not to pursue that knowledge. i don't think their is anything wrong with wanting to know. i can understand the thrill of finding out. but i know how i felt when my best friend came to me and told me everything about my ritual even though she's a theta phi alpha. i felt like i had been robbed. and that was just coming from my bestfriend. i can't imagine it coming from someone i don't even know. just my thoughts on the subject.

shelley j
sigma k

[HotDamnImAPhiMu]

wptw - shut up, my dad's cool. Seriously though, I want to marry a guy just like my dad. I honestly was trying to compliment you.

Shelly J - you are so honest, and I love that. I would love to know the ritual of other GLOs, too (one boyfriend, a Delta Chi, really lambasted me when I admitted this!) The important part is that I don't want other people to know MY ritual. So I stay away from theirs. Does that make any sense?

[sugar and spice]

I agree -- I would love to know other GLO's rituals! Not for the sake of knowing what Chi O's ritual is or Zeta Tau Alpha's ritual or any of those things; I wouldn't care which ritual belongs to which group. I just think ritual in general is interesting, and would love to know more about it. I think that the rumors about fake rituals (as long as they're believable) are just as interesting as the real ones that GLOs actually have.

And for those of you complaining about ritual collectors, wptw is very right when he mentions that most of our founders were ritual collectors as well. Even if they didn't study other fraternities' or sororities' rituals, they definitely studied ancient Greek rituals, Masonic rituals, etc. I think that the writer of Chi Omega's ritual had studied rituals in depth before he wrote Chi O's, and I know many many other GLO ritual writers did the same thing.

I also agree that the ritual collectors aren't nearly as at fault as the people who allow their ritual to get out. The collectors aren't really doing anything wrong; they're only following the natural human instinct of curiosity, and it's not their fault if your GLO doesn't protect its secrets well enough. It's the people who "lose" the ritual books and robes and secrets that are really at fault here.

[wptw]

Ha! HotDamn, I'm sure your dad IS cool. And it was a nice compliment. I just wasn't quite ready yet to remind a 20-something of her dad.

Speaking for myself, there's not really a thrill involved in getting a new ritual. Maybe the first few, way back when, but not now. It's certainly exciting to have new material to study, but I don't stand at the mailbox with wild eyes, wringing my hands and laughing maniacally because I now have the secrets of XYZ. It's more like the way sugar_and_spice described it. You don't care so much which group it's from, you're just poring through it looking for unique or interesting or historically significant details.

That's just me, personally. I avoid the term ritual "collector" because I think it incorrectly connotes an acquisition mindset. "Researcher" and "student" are more appropriate terms, in my case anyway.

Remember that the main reason our rituals today are so beautiful and detailed and inspirational is because the authors were very well schooled in many forms of ritual - from ancient greek and roman rituals, to crusade-era groups, to the class societies of renaissance and enlightenment-era Europe, to the masons, the early American literary and class societies, benevolent and insurance societies, up to and including their peers - the other GLOs on their campuses. They had a vast sea of information from which to draw the bits and pieces that spoke most clearly to their hearts.

Anyway, I fear the day is soon coming when all of our rituals will be open for examination. There has been and is still too much carelessness, too much malice against greeks, too much thirst for exposé among the general public, and too little value placed on honoring the vows GLO members make in their lives. It is best to start working your mindset around to that eventuality, and to start thinking how to evolve beyond it. Because it's coming.

wptw