It happened again...

[Optimist Prime]

NOt really. Fighting words are not covered by free speach. So if you get jumped after using racial slurs, you can't say "hey free speach"

[Kevin]

There is clearly a difference between fighting words which are to incite violence and wearing blackface which in this particular instance I'm fairly certain that there was little more than ignorance behind it.

If you think that this is an example of fighting words, please explain why the KKK is still having rallies and not being sued for wearing bedsheets?

[ZChi4Life]

Originally posted by librasoul22


Tom Earp, you are ignorant. Point blank. You think that just because you have lived more years than some of the people on the board, that makes you better able to understand anything?

Clearly it does not. You are a white male in America, so you really have no clue about any other race's struggles or so-called double standards.

So you got robbed by three black men? If it didn't matter the race (as you stated), then why bring it up?

I am not going to entertain the rest of your rambling because it is downright MISEDUCATED and IGNORANT.

Normally I dismiss your posts because I chalk your prejudice up to you being older, therefore somewhat more traditional in your mentality.

But this post has truly pissed me off due to its total lack of regard for other people's history.

And NOTE TO ALL WHITE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THAT IF THEY HAVE BLACK FRIENDS THEN THEY ARE AUTOMATICALLY ELIGIBLE TO MAKE SNIDE, COVERT RACIST REMARKS, please....that crutch is so overrated. So you have a few token Black friends...goody. How about paying less attention to how "diverse" and "cultured" that makes you, and paying more attention to what they face EVERYDAY as minorities in this country. IT IS AN EYE-OPENER. And some of y'all are so blind. I swear.

I agree with you Librasoul! I'm not going to even comment on Tom's thread, b/c it's just not even worth it. But I agree w/ your last paragraph wholeheartedly.

I also want to add something. A lot of people are saying that these men should not be punished b/c they were offensive. I have to disagree w/ that. I feel the manner in which they were offensive should be punished. C'mon people, when are we all going to learn! I'm sorry but ANYONE who PUBLICLY offends another ethnic group or PUBLICLY offends someone b/c of their sexual orientation, age, gender, etc, SHOULD be punished! I'm not saying they should get the death penalty, but they should be punished somehow for their actions. We as a nation are going to forever be stuck in the past if WE continue to allow people who thinks it's FUNNY or OKAY to joke about other ethnicities or people's sexual orientation or what have you.

Granted, we don't know all the details of this situation. I do understand that. But IF these men did this KNOWING what blackface meant, then they should be suspended or something! I'm sorry, it's just ridiculous.
Yea, I know people get offended everyday, but is that really ok? I mean, WHO in their RIGHT mind LIKES to be offended?! And if you are offended, aren't you upset? Especially when it's something as ignorant as this situation. I'm just upset that it is 2002 and we have people out there that say "well it's a free country, they can say/do what they want". UGH! So does that mean it's OK to go out offending people just b/c of Freedom of Speech??!! Puhleez! I'm all for freedom of speech, but c'mon, let's be real...this situation or any other one like it is just NOT ok. And WE should not let situations like this just slide.

[KappaTarzan]

i tihnk one of the beauties of GC and the internet in general is you can not tell what color someone is. you can not tell their gender, their creed, their handicap, or even a haircolor. all you can judge anybody on is their beliefs, who they are as a person. isn't that what the world should be like?

[VirtuousErudite]

Originally posted by ktsnake
There is clearly a difference between fighting words which are to incite violence and wearing blackface which in this particular instance I'm fairly certain that there was little more than ignorance behind it.

If you think that this is an example of fighting words, please explain why the KKK is still having rallies and not being sued for wearing bedsheets?

I really don't believe they are that ignorant of their actions. They stated that they didn't want it to turn into another "Auburn incident" letting me know they had prior knowledge of incidences like this and that they knew there could be repercussions for it. Members of their fraternity also attended an education seminar on race issues that did discuss black face only a few days before. These guys had to have known what they were doing could be offensive and hurtful to an entire population of the campus community.

[xp2k]

Very well put VirtuousErudite

[Kevin]

Originally posted by VirtuousErudite



I really don't believe they are that ignorant of their actions. They stated that they didn't want it to turn into another "Auburn incident" letting me know they had prior knowledge of incidences like this and that they knew there could be repercussions for it. Members of their fraternity also attended an education seminar on race issues that did discuss black face only a few days before. These guys had to have known what they were doing could be offensive and hurtful to an entire population of the campus community.

Okay, throw it out then. Even if they were blatantly trying to piss off as many people as possible... The worst they can be called is (insert flowery adjectives here). My point is that if Kappa Sigma doesn't see fit to punish them then maybe the school's IFC should (but not the school administration if it's a public university). If not them then maybe the philanthropies they do would disassociate with them, etc...

I'm simply saying the point in which you involve the government to regulate speech then you have started down a dangerous path. Thoughtcrime is not a punishable offense and I'd like to keep it that way.

[Optimist Prime]

I"m not saying they should be punished, but I wouldn't be surprised if they get their @$$es handed to them. They are fighting words. The difference between that and the KKK is that "hate speach" is still protected. You can say "i hate all N-words" and still be protected, but you can't walk up to some one and call him that and still be protected by the U.S. constitution.

[xp2k]

It wasnt a thoughtcrime, it was an action.

People are allowed to think that hazing is fun or cool all they want, but when they actually do haze, then its a crime.

And the University has to step in BECAUSE it is a public institution.

It is recieving funding from the government which means that it has to comply with the government's non-discrimination laws.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Optimist Prime
I"m not saying they should be punished, but I wouldn't be surprised if they get their @$$es handed to them. They are fighting words. The difference between that and the KKK is that "hate speach" is still protected. You can say "i hate all N-words" and still be protected, but you can't walk up to some one and call him that and still be protected by the U.S. constitution.

Wearing blackface and calling someone a N__ are different.

simple as that

[ZChi4Life]

Originally posted by ktsnake


Wearing blackface and calling someone a N__ are different.

simple as that

Ok, explain how they are different.

[AKA_Monet]

So some little (in more ways that one) boys fathom attending a private party who attended the University of Tennessee were found out to be dressing in blackface. Is that correct? Then a Black Student Association member determined what was going down, immediate school notification and photographs were taken. And somehow, the fraternity names, Kappa Sigma and Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc. are implicated...

WOW, coming from hazing and seeing it on the Fox News Channel, to white folks dressing up in blackface and calling themselves Alphas and Omegas, is--well, strange...

All offensives will serve punishments to fit the crime...

Dressing in blackface is offensive and should be punished. It is offensive to those of African descent and other ethnicities as much as dressing a Nazi uniform would be to those of the Jewish faith!!! So how come is it okay not to withstand the reprecussions of dressing in something so divisive as blackface when it come to those who are affected to be of African descent?

But you say to me, "Louis Armstrong was a great American jazz musician, and for me to portray him, I have to dress up in blackface..."

Then I have to say, "Dwight Yoakam is a great muscian too, but do you see me coming outta a trailer park, with a tow hitch and spitting tobacco to prove such a feeling for his music???"

The university is responsible for awarding the highest degrees to those students that can pass the classes in an approved major. Its desire is to make sure that there will be perpetuity within its community filled with brain power from an education acquired at one's university. Most university's mission statements say something similar to that text. It is the hope of the EDUCATED public that when they pay their taxes, that part of the money will be going to the university and it will be used to enlightened folks, train them to a vocation or profession so that they would be citizens that contribute to the well being of the "collective"... So in that since, it IS the responsibility of the University of Tennessee to take action on students that display behavior that is in violation of the STATE mandated mission... No administrative official wants their school noted for awarding degrees to idiots... And offending a certain student population only sheds light to the level of education and the kind of students the University of Tennessee admits into their university.

It is about crossing barriers, breaking down walls, seeing Life through another ethnic groups perspective. This is the new millennium people, let's move beyond our comfort zones and see the world!

I know that some of you will slam my statements. And for me that is okay. What my mission here is to stave off anything ugliness before things get said. And to be blunt, if you got to be bitch about it and attempt a futile ignorant response to me on this board, not only those that know me will laugh at your weak punk ass, but you need to be GROWN about it and do it to my face by PM'img me if you think you can go toe to toe with me... C'mon... I'm waiting... I dare you...

Dr. G. Moore, Ph.D.
University of Texas, Southwestern Medical Center
by way of Spelman College
M.S. and Ph.D. from San Diego State University
and the University of California at San Diego.

[Optimist Prime]

I don't think they should be punished by the school. The anti-discrimination policy would work against itself if they punished students due to beliefs. I wouldn't want them in fraternity though.

[RedAngel]

Originally posted by ZChi4Life



Ok, explain how they are different.

I'd like to know how they are different too!

Aka_Monet and xp2k I agree with you 100%.

[Kevin]

Calling someone a derogatory name is one thing while wearing clothing that is not in good taste and in this case it not being a clear effort to incite violence... it's two different things.

You can use your own reasoning to say that they're the same. In the end though neither interpretation really matters.

Edited to add:

It is not the responsability of schools to actually decide what is acceptable and what is not acceptable in society. They are not here to dictate our morals and our views, rather to provide for the forming of our views by providing new and different ideas.

It is contrary to the mission of a public university to punish moral transactions that have no tangible harm on another individual.. ie. offending them.

It is not our right to go through life without being offended. I'm offended by certain portrayals of white people in the media for example. Does that mean that we should punish those that perpetuate them? Nope.. it just means I won't patronize them and I certainly won't support them.

In American society it is our right to express what we feel and believe in (just ask Louis Farrakahn [sp]). I don't agree with what these kids do. I think Kappa Sigma should penalize them. I think the members should be disciplined. But I don't think that it is law enforcement or a public institution's job to rule in cases where there has been no tangible damage.

Look at what you're suggesting here... since you don't agree with something someone did you think their life should be essentially ruined when they did nothing even comparable to anyone else? Are you asking these idiot kids to atone for the sins of their race?

It really doesn't make a lot of sense.