Rankings of the Greek World

Betarulz! · #1 09-10-2002, 11:33 PM

Okay, so it's been a topic that has been discussed on your campus, and one that's been looked upon with equal interest, disgust, and wonder. The simple question of what is the top fraternity is one that seems to either frowned upon, or unable to be decided in this day and age.

I had accepted this up until I went to Beta's annual convention. There I was told by our GF historian that for nearly a century there was a ranking system for Fraternities. I think he said it lasted from the 1880's to the 1970's. (I don't know if there is a similar listing for sororities). He said that there was some sort of formula that was devised to create the system and during the entire publication only 5 Organizations ever achieved the #1 ranking: Beta Theta Pi, Pi Kappa Alpha, Sigma Chi, Phi Delta Theta and Sigma Alpha Epsilon.
Pike, Sigma Chi, Phi Delt and SAE only held the position for one year each, and the rest of the time Beta was ranked #1.

Of course I'm proud of this fact, and I believe our International Historian. However I'd like to see the rankings and how they were tabulated and what not. Do any GC'ers know where I could get my hands on this type of document? Perhaps some of you silver grays like Erik P. Conrad could point me in the right direction.

Thank you for any help.

Optimist Prime · #2 09-10-2002, 11:42 PM

Of course they told Beta held it longest if a Beta told you that.

chopper816 · #3 09-11-2002, 12:32 AM

no offense, i have a hard time believing this, if its based on size, i believe the three biggest are sae, pike and lambda chi, i dont see where beta comes into the mix as far as it being number 1 so long or how it could be calculated whos the best...

DeltAlum · #4 09-11-2002, 01:26 AM

I seem to recall Erik Conrad explaining this at some length in another thread -- although I can't remember its name.

I believe he said that there were such rankings, but the results were highly questionable due to different size schools, number of chapters, size of groups, etc.

Betarulz, you might want to PM Erik and ask him to reply on this thread.

Optimist Prime · #5 09-11-2002, 10:28 AM

Theta Chi should be up there. In 1950 we had installed 100 chapters and all 100 were active. No one else has ever had 100% like that. See, we all have things in our history we can point to and say "beat that."

ZZ-kai- · #6 09-11-2002, 11:36 AM

BetaRulz!,

I was told the same thing at Conventions gone by, and I don't doubt him (B.H.) whatsoever. I have a scanned pic of a grades sheet from a Sigma Chi book, I can e-mail it to anyone. Beta was top three in grades for the longest time. (Yeah, I know that doesn't make us the best....)

Also in the magazine it says: "Beta Theta Pi has held national supremacy in grades for generations." (And remember,..this was from a Sigma Chi mag).

Every fraternity is the best in its own way. William Raimond Baird chose Beta Theta Pi for his Alpha Sigma Chi fraternity in 1879, and he chose nobody else. He is the all-time Greek God, and he chose us. That says something.

DeltAlum · #7 09-11-2002, 12:04 PM

Well, I think we've just, in a very short time, discovered why this kind of "ranking" really can't work very well.

One group is on top grade-wise, one has the most chapters, one has the most active members, one has the biggest alumni base, one has the biggest chapters, one has the most number of community service hours, one has chapters on the biggest campuses.

How do you quantify all of that and come up with a "rank?"

And, if you could, who would agree with the methodology?

Finally, isn't it moot in the end because we all KNOW that our organization is the "best?"

I'd still like to hear from Erik on this.

Betarulz! · #8 09-11-2002, 12:25 PM

Just to make it known, I wasn't trying to boast about my own organization, or to say that anyone else's was inferior.

As several people have pointed out, there are points in everyone's history that can be pointed to and say no one else has done this.

What I think the rankings considered were things like prominence of alumni (obviously each org has prominent members but perhaps it was total # or amount of influence). Grades, # of chapters, activitity of those chapters, and I'm sure a bunch of other factors. Some of the factors were probably more subjective b/c our Historian said that despite that ranking the same authorities said that Beta's were by far the most likely to have "false pride".

Further I'm sure a lot of other organizations reached the top 10 (no doubt highly respectable) but that only those five mentioned ever held the #1 spot.

Finally, as I've always held, the very best part of going greek is that you can find the best organization FOR YOU, not anyone else. No matter one's interests I know that there is the opportunity for them to find the perfect chapter for them, thereby making that Organization the best.

With all that said, I apologize for making anyone angry, that wasn't my purpose.

PsychTau · #9 09-11-2002, 12:47 PM

I think you are talking about Wilson Heller, who had a national ranking system as his hobby. I've read several posts about him, and if I can't figure out how to make a link to a post, just search for "Wilson Heller" and that should get you started.

Here is a link (if it works):
Click Here

PsychTau · #10 09-11-2002, 12:51 PM

It worked!!! COOL!!!!
OK, calm now. . .

GreekSCU · #11 09-11-2002, 04:51 PM

Let me get this right...

You are gonna glorify your organization (really, why else would you post this!) based on data that hasn't been collected since 1970?

I hate this crap. People always point to old data (Heller, Bairds Manuals) to say how they are the largest fraternity, most powerful fraternity etc. One of my pet peeves.

Oh, lets not even mention people who gloat about "famous alumni". Don't even tell me you haven't met a Sigma Chi who brags about having John Wayne as an alum. I mean seriously, who cares? Most if not all of these famous alums had no effect on their national organizations, and haven't been involved in fraternity life since their college careers. Have any of these braggarts actually MET any of these alums? Of course not.

Please, no one cares. Let this useless garbage die.

Betarulz! · #12 09-11-2002, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GreekSCU
Let me get this right...

You are gonna glorify your organization (really, why else would you post this!) based on data that hasn't been collected since 1970?

I posted this asking for information where I could see the data for myself. There was no other more sinister reason. Simply put, the presentation I heard at convention raised my curiosity on these articles and I wished to see them for myself. Because I did not know where to begin looking I figured I could ask some of knowledgeable alumni that frequent this board as to where I could find them.

I understand that the data is old, that things have changed and all. However our history determines who we are, and the same applies to organizations. To know your organizations history is to know what defines you as a member of that organization in a greater context than yourself, your chapter, your university...

Is there any point for me to really see these articles? No. Nothing more than a gaining of knowledge is all I was seeking from posting this.

Thank you PsychTau for putting up that link...it really explained a lot.

SigmaChiGuy · #13 09-11-2002, 06:44 PM

Ok, somone struck a nerve. I am thinking your either A. a local and have no prominent alumni, or B. an Alpha Beta or Tri-Lamb with no prominent alumni.

John Wayne is a Sig, and I am damn proud of that. No, I never met him and he's dead. But it sure as hell made me proud.

Lastly, tons of our prominent alumni are still actively involved in our organization, maybe not yours.

Obviously some take more pride than others, yours obviously don't.

PS, Baird WAS a greek god, and everyone that continues his work are considered the same. His research was as good as it gets and will never be seen again.

Quote:

Originally posted by GreekSCU
Let me get this right...

You are gonna glorify your organization (really, why else would you post this!) based on data that hasn't been collected since 1970?

I hate this crap. People always point to old data (Heller, Bairds Manuals) to say how they are the largest fraternity, most powerful fraternity etc. One of my pet peeves.

Oh, lets not even mention people who gloat about "famous alumni". Don't even tell me you haven't met a Sigma Chi who brags about having John Wayne as an alum. I mean seriously, who cares? Most if not all of these famous alums had no effect on their national organizations, and haven't been involved in fraternity life since their college careers. Have any of these braggarts actually MET any of these alums? Of course not.

Please, no one cares. Let this useless garbage die.

Optimist Prime · #14 09-11-2002, 09:24 PM

Speilberg is Theta Chi. He will be involved when I meet him and ask where I can find a place to stay in Los Angelos.

KEPike · #15 09-12-2002, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GreekSCU
Let me get this right...

Oh, lets not even mention people who gloat about "famous alumni". Don't even tell me you haven't met a Sigma Chi who brags about having John Wayne as an alum. I mean seriously, who cares? Most if not all of these famous alums had no effect on their national organizations, and haven't been involved in fraternity life since their college careers. Have any of these braggarts actually MET any of these alums? Of course not.

Please, no one cares. Let this useless garbage die.

As a Pike, we have many famous alumni who are still actively involved:

In the few conventions I have been to, I have met Stephen Covey, Joe Ford (CEO of Alltel) and Jeff Taylor (Founder of Monster.com). In addition, Tim McGraw and Rick Dees came to our convention this year. Plus, countless more high-powered alums attend our conferences and speak at events.

Oh, and I've met Bobby Bowden. He supposedly donated $300,000 to the Pikes at Florida State. And one of our past Presidents (Ed Pease) is the Vice Chairman of Rolls Royce, a Senator, and the past NIC President. He came and spoke at a Student Senate meeting on our campus 10 years ago when we were seeking university recognition. Talk about dedication.

Oh, one more. Every year the Founder of a Fortune 1000 company invites our chapter over to his house (mansion) for a rush event. He spends about $1000 on the event. He's not really famous, but in the Midwest the name Cerner draws alot of attention.

Not related at all to the topic but pertinent nevertheless...