Phi Kappa Psi at U of Virginia Voluntarily Suspends Activities

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by honorgal

Not at all sure what you mean by "the college bubble" is about social isolation? Social isolation refers to a lack of interaction or contact with others. I think we would find more prevalence of that in non-student populations.

No, "social isolation" is not only about a lack of contact and interaction with others. Feelings of loneliness, abandonment, depression, and isolation are common on college campuses similar as they can increase with urbanization and migration in the general population. College campuses are an environment in which strangers are taken from different cities, states, and often countries and put in a bubble even smaller and more isolated than an "urban bubble". Add to that the pressure some students feel to transition into adulthood and figure out their own preferences, plans, and goals without disappointing or betraying their parents. College campus counselors (often assisted by faculty and staff) spend a great deal of time assisting students (not all of them introverts) who feel alone in a crowded room, who are away from family and childhood friends, and who feel they have no one to talk to at college. People dropout of college for reasons including feeling lonely and depressed, poor grades, family obligations, and physical, mental, and emotional issues. This includes people who want to speak out about their victimization. Many victims are embarrassed over the circumstances and embarrassed because their family trusted them to be away from home and they feel they "messed it up". These are dynamics that are prevalent on college campuses as a microcosm of the general population.

Again, you are trying to fight a battle that isn't being fought. There are many social issues that are causing alarm on some college campuses but these issues are more prevalent in the general population (for reasons including size of population and independence versus the smaller population and dependency of the college bubble). This isn't a competition. There can be disturbing trends and problems on college campuses as well as in the general population.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

No, "social isolation" is not only about a lack of contact and interaction with others. Feelings of loneliness, abandonment, depression, and isolation are common on college campuses similar as they can increase with urbanization and migration in the general population. College campuses are an environment in which strangers are taken from different cities and states and put in a bubble. Add to that the pressure some students feel to transition into adulthood and figure out their own preferences, plans, and goals without disappointing or betraying their parents. College campus counselors (often assisted by faculty and staff) spend a great deal of time assisting students (not all of them introverts) who feel alone in a crowded room, who are away from family and childhood friends, and who feel they have no one to talk to at college. This includes people who want to speak out about their victimization. Many victims are embarrassed over the circumstances and embarrassed because their family trusted them to be away from home and they feel they "messed it up". These are dynamics that exist more on college campuses than in the general population.

And this causes college men to rape??

Again, you are trying to fight a battle that isn't being fought. There are many social issues that are causing alarm on some college campuses but these issues are more prevalent in the general population. This isn't a competition. There can be disturbing trends and problems on college campuses as well as in the general population.

The activists, the media and the politicians are focused on college campus rapes, not general population rapes. Do you see any attempts to pass legislation that affects the general public broadly on rape laws and makes it easier to convict rapists? (Broaden definition of rape, lower standard of proof, affirmative consent)

[honorgal]

"Why would a woman lie about being raped"

Sometimes, it's to raise awareness of the issue of rape.

Note to activists - you do not help solve the problem by doing this, you make it worse.


http://dailycaller.com/2014/12/14/he...va-rape-story/

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by honorgal

And this causes college men to rape??

We are not currently talking about what "causes men to rape".

You are too busy fighting an imaginary battle that you don't know which way is up.

Originally Posted by honorgal

Do you see any attempts to pass legislation that affects the general public broadly on rape laws and makes it easier to convict rapists? (Broaden definition of rape, lower standard of proof, affirmative consent)

Yes.

Did you think this all started at the college-level?

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Yes.

Links?

Did you think this all started at the college-level?

What is "this"?

[DrPhil]

You're a wash, honorgal. A waste of time. Rather than schooling you for you to only dismiss the information, like you just attempted in response to my explanation of social isolation, take the time to school yourself. Learn how some campus-based initiatives learned and sought support from off-campus initiatives. Prove that you are willing and able to form sound arguments without picking and choosing only that which instantly supports your argument.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

You're a wash, honorgal. A waste of time. Rather than schooling you for you to only dismiss the information, like you just attempted in response to my explanation of social isolation, take the time to school yourself. Learn how some campus-based initiatives learned and sought support from off-campus initiatives. Prove that you are willing and able to form sound arguments without picking and choosing only that which instantly supports your argument.

Too funny. My argument does not rely on using bogus statistics like 1 in 5, or outrageous stories like the one in Rolling Stone.

[DrPhil]

Neither does mine. The issue of rape is not dependent upon a couple incidents or whether people believe particular numbers.

But it is dependent upon an awareness of the individuals and organizations working to bring awareness to, and decrease incidents of, sexual assault and rape in our cities, states, college campuses, and/or around the world. I recommend anyone who engages in these discussions inform themselves of what is being done at the local, state, national, and international levels BEFORE claiming nothing is being done.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Again, you are trying to fight a battle that isn't being fought. There are many social issues that are causing alarm on some college campuses but these issues are more prevalent in the general population (for reasons including size of population and independence versus the smaller population and dependency of the college bubble). This isn't a competition. There can be disturbing trends and problems on college campuses as well as in the general population.

Sound statistical analysis at its most basic will control for different population sizes.

I beg to differ, it is a competition - for public awareness, media attention, and public and private resources. There is literally no end to problems that our society wants to address, and so we prioritize them, based on the severity of the problem, the number of people effected, the availability of effective solutions, the limited resources we have to bring to bear, etc.

"for campus activists and bureaucrats it's a source of power: If there's a "campus rape crisis," that means that we need new rules, bigger budgets, and expanded power and self-importance for all involved, with the added advantage of letting you call your political opponents (or anyone who threatens funding) "pro rape." If we focus on the truth, however — rapidly declining rape rates already, without any particular "crisis" programs in place — then voters, taxpayers, and university trustees will probably decide to invest resources elsewhere. So for politicians and activists, a phony crisis beats no crisis."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinio...lumn/20397277/

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I recommend anyone who engages in these discussions inform themselves of what is being done at the local, state, national, and international levels BEFORE claiming nothing is being done.

On the issue of campus sexual assault, there is a lot being done.

The concept/meaning/definition of rape (compared to the legal/judicial one historically used) is being altered, the burden of proof is being shifted to the accused (unprecedented) while at the same time the standard of proof has been significantly lowered (from the highest standard, to the lowest) while also obliterating technical due process protections for the accused (in some campus proceedings, the accused isnt even told what the charges are). As a means of getting more men found guilty of rape, these are very effective tools. As a means to punish rapists and prevent more rapes, it's of dubious value.

Hence, the accusers and now the accused are suing colleges and the federal government under Title IX in record numbers.

At least the trial lawyers are happy.

[naraht]

Eventually, private schools (like for example Yale), at least will start evaluating what it will take for them to get *completely* out of the business of on campus discipline. Have a rape charge? Go to the New Haven Police. Don't want the person attending classes with you, get a distance based restraining order from a Judge.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by honorgal

Sound statistical analysis at its most basic will control for different population sizes.

Honorgal really typed this.

Anyway, naraht, I agree. There are private schools that already direct certain incidents to the local police.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by naraht

Eventually, private schools (like for example Yale), at least will start evaluating what it will take for them to get *completely* out of the business of on campus discipline. Have a rape charge? Go to the New Haven Police. Don't want the person attending classes with you, get a distance based restraining order from a Judge.

But even that doesn't take the university out of it. How does the university decide whose class schedule changes? Or who has to move dorms? Etc.

[ChioLu]

According to this AP story, Rolling Stone didn't interview Jackie's friends who were with her that night. They are saying there's even more mis-information.
http://news.yahoo.com/friends-pushed...230527979.html

[1964Alum]

Originally Posted by ChioLu

According to this AP story, Rolling Stone didn't interview Jackie's friends who were with her that night. They are saying there's even more mis-information.
http://news.yahoo.com/friends-pushed...230527979.html

What is not clear is the extent to which the author embellished what she was told or even if this was a composite of many different stories she heard. In one article or another Jackie asked to be able to vet the story before publication. This request was denied by Rolling Stone.