The Murder of Trayvon Martin

[badgeguy]

Posted by Dr. Phil...." I agree with the verdict AND I believe this entire thing would have been different if Trayvon Martin was white. Zimmerman probably would not have followed Martin in the first place because a white person did not fit the profile of the burglars in the neighborhood;"

This is what I was referring to, and this statement as written is implying a racist view in that you assume that if Trayvon were not black.....which to me means that you feel that whites wouldn't follow whites and not be suspicious.....to me as written a statement like that assumes that we as whites are suspicious of all blacks....

Maybe I'm missing something, but unfortunately it's hard to really know what's behind the written words.....

[DrPhil]

People's ends to a means do not have to meet our individual seal of approval.

I dislike the Occupy movement for various reasons, including the racial and social class dynamics. But I would not tell the people in the movement that they are pointless and need to shut up just because I think 95% of them are that which they claim to despise.

Originally Posted by badgeguy

This is what I was referring to, and this statement as written is implying a racist view in that you assume that if Trayvon were not black.....which to me means that you feel that whites wouldn't follow whites and not be suspicious.....to me as written a statement like that assumes that we as whites are suspicious of all blacks....

Maybe I'm missing something, but unfortunately it's hard to really know what's behind the written words.....

You are definitely missing something but you will have to research this on your own. The thread has reached its maximum redundancy and will self-destruct.

The only thing I care to say is stop throwing out the word "racist" ("racism") just because something rubs you the wrong way as it pertains to race and ethnicity. That simplifies and does a disservice to real instances of racial inequality and racial injustice (racism) for which white people are NOT the recipients 99.5% of the time.

[AOII Angel]

Ugh...if I hear one more person in my family tell me that "n...a" is no longer a bad word but is a term for any male and is okay to say, I'm going to scream.

[Munchkin03]

On NPR (yes I'm a nerd) they discussed how "thug" is the new dog-whistle for young black men or, the "new N-word."

Discuss.

No race war thread shall die on my watch!

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

On NPR (yes I'm a nerd) they discussed how "thug" is the new dog-whistle for young black men or, the "new N-word."

Discuss.

No race war thread shall die on my watch!

I agree. It's been that way for awhile. When Jordan Jefferson, quarterback for LSU two years ago was arrested for battery and Tyrann Matthews got kicked off the team for smoking pot, both were called thugs. It's not something white players are ever called for similar activity. Neither were thugs, though both did stupid things that hurt themselves, their team and their futures.

[MaryPoppins]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

When Jordan Jefferson, quarterback for LSU two years ago was arrested for battery and Tyrann Matthews got kicked off the team for smoking pot, both were called thugs. It's not something white players are ever called for similar activity.

This jumped out at me when it happened, and it happens at many campuses. And it shouldn't be happening at all.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by badgeguy

Isn't what you just said about "if Trayvon were white...." being racist also? There is no proof to that statement.

There's no proof out there, which is why no one thinks the feds will file civil rights charges. That said, a pretty strong inference could be made that there was racial profiling going on there. It's not as if racial profiling never happens. Anecdotally, I have black clients who are pulled over all of the time because they fit the description of someone the police are looking for--young/black/male.

On the other hand, I, a 30-something white guy have not been pulled over for any reason since something around 2002.

An NYC study on stop and frisk stops showed that despite the fact that blacks and latinos accounted for 4.7% of the city's population, those between 14 and 24 accounted for 41.6% of the stops.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/ny...nd-frisks.html

I can certainly sympathize with the sort of frustration that someone would experience by being treated with automatic hostility and suspicion from others.

This is maybe not the perfect set of facts to be out there protesting over, but it's a legitimate issue.

Zimmerman was a member of a neighborhood watch group, therefore it would stand to reason that all people who "seem suspicious" would be looked at by him, as well as other neighborhood watch people.

As I said, it's a bad set of facts to be mad about, but there are some legitimate grievances here.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevin

This is maybe not the perfect set of facts to be out there protesting over, but it's a legitimate issue.

As I said, it's a bad set of facts to be mad about, but there are some legitimate grievances here.

1. I respect Kevin's post on racial profiling but Kevin's post doesn't explain my post. If badgeguy wants to know about my post, he has to read about the profile of (most of) the burglars in Zimmerman's neighborhood and read this GC thread more thoroughly.

2. The word "mad" is misplaced. It has an irrational tone.

3. It is next to impossible to say "it's a bad set of facts" and "legitimate grievances" in the same sentence.

4. But, there is a God because if white people can tell Black people that it is a legitimate grievance, the ponies can officially piss rainbows. Tim Wise and other panelists were on Melissa Harris-Perry's show yesterday and today. The panel was awesome and Tim Wise is always superb. It is no doubt that many people take these discussions more seriously when Tim Wise is present. That is because he is well-informed, articulate, calm and poised, and a white man whose education and unemotional intellect are assumed. He isn't "mad" over a "bad set of facts." Tim Wise knows that his white male privilege is one more thing that leads the general audience (predominantly white liberals) to believe there's a "legitimate grievance" just because he says so.

******

Even Without 'Stand Your Ground' George Zimmerman Acquittal was Likely

George Zimmerman: The Trial He Should Have Had

For the ACLU, George Zimmerman case is awkward déjà vu

[StealthMode]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Ugh...if I hear one more person in my family tell me that "n...a" is no longer a bad word but is a term for any male and is okay to say, I'm going to scream.

Please don't post when one more person says it because I may scream, too. Unless you just want screaming company then go ahead.

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

On NPR (yes I'm a nerd) they discussed how "thug" is the new dog-whistle for young black men or, the "new N-word."

I disagree because I haven't heard it used as such but it could be and I'm just missing out on those stories.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

4. But, there is a God because if white people can tell Black people that it is a legitimate grievance, the ponies can officially piss rainbows.

So many siggies, so little time...

BTW the protest was relatively peaceful and made the news on ABC and NBC. However, the majority of the news segment went to the protests in Houston--yes, plural. There was one against GZ and a counter protest happening at the same time. The helicopter camera showed two crowds walking on opposite sides of the same street. There's no "mind explode" emoticon for me to use right now.

[Phrozen Sands]

So I guess it would be fair to pursue and follow George Zimmerman. If he were to try to defend himself, if he got shot and killed, my defense would be I was standing my ground. The difference is I'd be in prison right now. That's a really stupid law. That jury already had predetermined the outcome long before that trial even started.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Phrozen Sands

So I guess it would be fair to pursue and follow George Zimmerman. If he were to try to defend himself, if he got shot and killed, my defense would be I was standing my ground.

Possibly. Stand your ground can lead to some absurdities. Now in this case, we have a bit more than Zimmerman just following Martin. We have a physical altercation which wasn't going Zimmerman's way and then the shooting. If you simply walked up to someone and shot him, that's not going to play out in your favor.

That jury already had predetermined the outcome long before that trial even started.

The jury followed the law.

[DrPhil]

Zimmerman Emerges to Help Distressed Family

Sure, it is probably legit and mere coincidence...Zimmerman's a good wholesome community kinda guy...yadayadayada...we get the point. The amused part of me thinks this smells like the fake crack deal around the White House for George H.W. Bush's presidency. I'm just glad Zimmerman didn't have his gun. Ya know, shit happens when you coincidentally have a gun.

[badgeguy]

Ok, from the tone of your post you are now against GZ from ever being able to do good?
Even people on death row are repentant in those final minutes and ask for forgiveness....maybe this is GZs way of showing that mistakes were made that night and now he will so what it takes to prove that he's not a monster as some want him to be.....

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by badgeguy

Even people on death row are repentant in those final minutes and ask for forgiveness....maybe this is GZs way of showing that mistakes were made that night and now he will do what it takes to prove that he's not a monster as some want him to be.....

In case you're keeping count, you don't disagree with me, badgeguy. I am merely talking about the convenience of this family tragedy and resulting news story. I will trust that it is a real incident and not something created--that happens.

[amIblue?]

The timing of the story is incredibly convenient. That's all I will say.