Chick-fil-a Support Day and Free Speech

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by agzg

Not to mention that CFA Appreciation Day was proposed and planned BEFORE local politicians started expressing that maybe Chick-fil-A wasn't in line with their values. Mike Huckabee did call it originally for "free speech" but that's because Mike Huckabee doesn't know what the fuck "free speech" means.

But it's totally about free speech, right?

Well, this is sort of incorrect. The Boston stuff pre-dates Huckabee setting the date. I think the Chicago stuff follows it.

And even if Huckabee jumped out there early, the reasons people actually participated, I think, were influenced by everything that transpired before August 1 and by the way the issue was frame in the sources where they heard about it.

And the corporate giving stuff mentioned earlier may be off too. I understand that any giving to same-sex opponents is plenty for some to boycott. The info I saw, though, puts giving to external conservative groups as the minority of Chick-fil-a/Winshapes charitable giving overall.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinShape_Foundation,
http://www.chick-fil-abowl.com/Givin...bleGiving.aspx (I know this connection is a little tenuous since it's a bowl game, but Chick-fil-a spends 22 million a year for sponsorship and I suspect in also involved in the charity aspects.)

I'll continue to look for something that breaks down their total giving to link.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

You proved my point. The whole "lets compare being gay to being Black".

. . . Why use any other persecuted group at all to compare to the gay experience? If oppression of gays is so prevalent, and I believe it is, then it is an issue that should be able to stand on its own without comparison to others.

I don't think anybody is comparing "the gay experience" to "the black experience," including the Facebook post that AF posted. I think the point some people are trying to make is that bigotry is bigotry, regardless of whether it is directed toward a group where most people would recognize it for the bigotry it is, or whether it is directed toward a group for whom the bigotry often goes unchallenged.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

You proved my point. The whole "lets compare being gay to being Black".

?????

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Let's not act brand new here and pretend that CFA's efforts against gay marriage are only a small part of their charitable efforts or their culture. From looking at their charitable giving and their actions, it's a major part of their culture.

Can you break this out for me?

Unless we basically say that any giving to a Christian organization or support for Christian values is assumed to be anti-gay, I'm not sure how you get there.

The figures I've seen say Winshape has about an 18 million dollar budget annually and that donations to outside suspect groups are around than five million since 2003.

And can you point me to what you read saying that FCA is anti-gay?

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Can you break this out for me?

Unless we basically say that any giving to a Christian organization or support for Christian values is assumed to be anti-gay, I'm not sure how you get there.

The figures I've seen say Winshape has about an 18 million dollar budget annually and that donations to outside suspect groups are around than five million since 2003.

And can you point me to what you read saying that FCA is anti-gay?

The WinShape Foundation, which is CFA's charitable arm, has given money to several organizations with well-publicized anti-gay agendas, including but not limited to: Exodus International, Focus on the Family, the Eagle Forum, and the Family Research Council. All of these organizations have been vocal in their anti-gay rhetoric; several of them are listed with the SPLC as anti-gay hate groups. I specifically listed those, and not some of the missions (like Schools of Niger), which may be generally ecumenical in scope.

Typically I'd try to find a link from a more neutral source, but Equality Matters actually included a PDF of WinShape's IRS forms so I think that's as unbiased as it gets. This document indicates approximately 1.9 million donated to specific groups in 2009; the numbers were the same for 2009:

http://equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201111010001

Here's a link to an article about how a coach supported by FCA was able to pray her gay away:
http://www.fca.org/vsItemDisplay.lsp...BA41A7675B0760

The application that one completes in order to become an FCA leader includes a statement that one will refrain from homosexual acts. (They could have simply said sex outside of marriage, but they specifically included homosexuality. Strange.)

[mizzoumom12]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Kinda, sorta no.

What people do in their lives is their business. But, since homosexuality has been turned into a 'hot button' political issue, it is not unreasonable for people to take sides.

Christianity is very deeply rooted in this country. And, in Christianity homosexuality is seen as sinful, along with other acts. So, if you ask me as a Christian, do I have a problem with gays, then yes I do because it does go against the Bible. I strive to live as close to God's word as possible.

But, I'm also wise enough to recognize that not everyone is a Christian. I'm also wise enough to know that people have the right to their own beliefs even though they differ from mine. So, in that respect, then I say live and let live.

Personally, I'm heterosexual. So for me it is hard to comprehend being attracted to someone of the same sex.

If someone says they are not in support of gay marriage, as marriage defined by the Bible, then they have every right to express that openly in the same way that someone would express the opposite view.

So, although I am new, I have a question for you - do you believe homosexuality is a choice?

[amIblue?]

I had no idea that FCA was anti-gay. I joined in high school because all of the cutest boys were in it. I don't remember anything else but cute boys.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

I had no idea that FCA was anti-gay. I joined in high school because all of the cutest boys were in it. I don't remember anything else but cute boys.

I didn't know it either until I started reading more about Chic Fil-A. It was made up of the kids who went to "good" churches and had the best parties. The snake handlers were in another Christian club--they used to call the FCA "Fellowship of Christian Alcoholics."

[pshsx1]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Why use any other persecuted group at all to compare to the gay experience? If oppression of gays is so prevalent, and I believe it is, then it is an issue that should be able to stand on its own without comparison to others.

If all wars are horrible, why is the war in Afghanistan compared to the Vietnam War? Vietnam was way worse and more people died. The war in Afghanistan should be able to stand out as a bloody war on its own without comparison to others.

If Dawn dish soap is so great, why must we compare it to Joy? If Dawn really is that great, we shouldn't have to compare it to Joy; it should stand out on its own without comparison to others.

Originally Posted by mizzoumom12

So, although I am new, I have a question for you - do you believe homosexuality is a choice?

*grabs popcorn*

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by pshsx1

*grabs popcorn*

For real. Talk about a train wreck waiting to happen...

[LXA SE285]

To me, this says all that needs to be said.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

The WinShape Foundation, which is CFA's charitable arm, has given money to several organizations with well-publicized anti-gay agendas, including but not limited to: Exodus International, Focus on the Family, the Eagle Forum, and the Family Research Council. All of these organizations have been vocal in their anti-gay rhetoric; several of them are listed with the SPLC as anti-gay hate groups. I specifically listed those, and not some of the missions (like Schools of Niger), which may be generally ecumenical in scope.

Typically I'd try to find a link from a more neutral source, but Equality Matters actually included a PDF of WinShape's IRS forms so I think that's as unbiased as it gets. This document indicates approximately 1.9 million donated to specific groups in 2009; the numbers were the same for 2009:

http://equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201111010001

Here's a link to an article about how a coach supported by FCA was able to pray her gay away:
http://www.fca.org/vsItemDisplay.lsp...BA41A7675B0760

The application that one completes in order to become an FCA leader includes a statement that one will refrain from homosexual acts. (They could have simply said sex outside of marriage, but they specifically included homosexuality. Strange.)

Even granting that all groups labeled by Equality Matters are anti-gay, we still end up with the majority of Winshape's spending going to other efforts removed from that agenda. (I think the total budget was 17-18 million. You can see the complete tax form with the internal spending on their own programs for retreats, scholarships, camps, foster care, etc too.)

Again, my point isn't to say to people who want to boycott that hey, only 2/17 of your money goes to anti-gay stuff. My point is just say that it's hard to see anti-gay giving as Chick-fil-a's primary charity or agenda. I wouldn't even say major part of their agenda. I'm actually kind of hopeful that they'll reevaluate if there are pro-family groups they can work with without the hateful baggage.

And that's without even looking at any local giving or supports by store owners of local schools, sports, etc, which is more the stuff that I'm familiar with.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by mizzoumom12

So, although I am new, I have a question for you - do you believe homosexuality is a choice?

Originally Posted by pshsx1

*grabs popcorn*

Originally Posted by SydneyK

For real. Talk about a train wreck waiting to happen...

*crickets*

Sigmadiva had already bowed out of this discussion and would probably not return if people are popping popcorn and planning for trainwrecks.

Father's Letter Disowning Gay Son James After Coming Out Goes Viral

******

Conservatives blast Chick-fil-A "tastes like hate" vandalism. That vandalism was cowardly, dumb, and of course against the law.

Loving the freedom to hate at Chick-fil-A

Build a culture of hate and they will come.

On a lighthearted and relatively pointless note, it's the waffle fries.

[MysticCat]

Bumping to post this recent article from Huffington Post by Shane Windmeyer, who many Greeks will know as founder of Campus Pride and author of Out on Fraternity Row and Secret Sisters:

Dan and Me: My Coming Out as a Friend of Dan Cathy and Chick-fil-A

A few excerpts:

I spent New Year's Eve at the red-blooded, all-American epicenter of college football: at the Chick-fil-A Bowl, next to Dan Cathy, as his personal guest. It was among the most unexpected moments of my life.

Yes, after months of personal phone calls, text messages and in-person meetings, I am coming out in a new way, as a friend of Chick-fil-A's president and COO, Dan Cathy, and I am nervous about it. I have come to know him and Chick-fil-A in ways that I would not have thought possible when I first started hearing from LGBT students about their concerns over the chicken chain's giving practices. . . .

This past week Chick-fil-A shared with me the 2011 IRS Form 990, filed in November for the WinShape Foundation, along with 2012 financials. The IRS has not released the 990 to the public yet, but the financials affirm Chick-fil-A's values a year prior to the controversy this past July. The nearly $6 million in outside grant funding focuses on youth, education, marriage enrichment and local communities. The funding reflects Chick-fil-A's promised commitment not to engage in "political or social debates," and the most divisive anti-LGBT groups are no longer listed.

Even as Campus Pride and so many in the community protested Chick-fil-A and its funding of groups like Family Research Council, Eagle Forum and Exodus International, the funding of these groups had already stopped. Dan Cathy and Chick-fil-A could have noted this publicly earlier. Instead, they chose to be patient, to engage in private dialogue, to reach understanding, and to share proof with me when it was official. There was no "caving"; there were no "concessions." There was, in my view, conscience.

This is why, after discussions with Dan and Chick-fil-A, Campus Pride suspended our campaign. Like Dan, we had faith. It took time to be proven publicly. . . .

In the end, it is not about eating (or eating a certain chicken sandwich). It is about sitting down at a table together and sharing our views as human beings, engaged in real, respectful, civil dialogue. Dan would probably call this act the biblical definition of hospitality. I would call it human decency. So long as we are all at the same table and talking, does it matter what we call it or what we eat?

There is much more to the article. It's a good read.

[DubaiSis]

I still think I'll wait a year and make sure they didn't just closet the hate until the furor died down. I certainly hope this is a true reform as they really are great chicken sandwiches. Now, if we could just do something about Macy's and Donald Trump. I have missed shopping there and I really need some makeup and sweaters. In lieu of paying more or finding a new store, I have just been going without. And my eye shadow situation is getting dire.