UT frat recruited with live sex shows, lawsuit claims

[carnation]

Good, I'll tell him that.

His teenaged sisters are still laughing hysterically.

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by carnation

Good, I'll tell him that.

His teenaged sisters are still laughing hysterically.

Does Mr. Carnation need to have that special "father-son talk"?

[carnation]

I told him that now was the perfect time since they're both home on break but he conveniently had to go pick up a drivers' test manual for one of the teens. The 15-year-old son said, "I'LL tell him!" um, no.

So tonight I'm going to lock Dad and The Baby Boy in some room until it gets explained because I've told the girls sooo much but sorry, Dad's handling this one.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I guess I don't understand why this would be a good rush event. Do they measure each other's boners to decide who gets bids or what?

Boys are weird.

Hmm, Determining membership based on size of "endowment"...
On the one hand, I doubt that it would be illegal under either State or Federal discrimination laws and I doubt that it is specifically prohibited by the Kappa Alpha Order bylaws. (unless you think a racial argument could be made.)

On the other hand, I'd look very strangely on any law or Fraternity by-laws that specifically prohibited it.

My guess is that the law would treat this as if the fraternity were discriminating according to Height.

I'm just trying to figure out what other possible reason they could have for having a live sex show during rush.

And as for getting into a lawsuit with your National, the only one that I've seen the National lose is the recent Tau Epsilon Phi situation.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

If these guys are so arrogant and stupid that they think they can keep the house after national pulls the plug, these guys really need to be spending more time in class and less time with hookers and blow.

That all depends on how big of a role the alumni chapter/housing corp plays. These things are different with every fraternity, and in some cases, yes, they would be able to stay in their house, even if they lose national and campus recognition.

[g41965]

The Texas KA Chapter is powerful, old and has a large membership 150 + and 2300 alumni.They own a beautiful house at 2515 Leon, Austin Texas outright. If the alumni support the new group/local I think they can survive.
The University of Texas is a public university and cannot prohibit membership in the new local as this would violate the US and Texas Constitutional Right of free association. Several chapters in the south have disaffiated from their national/international including the SAE's at Duke and the Phi Delt's at U Va. and The University of The South, in an odd way this paralells what happened to greeks in New England in the late 1960's
I tend to think a purely local chapter without oversite is a risk management problem and the chapter will decline, but die outright, probably not.

[srmom]

Dudes, you're not getting a 100 year old house just because you're the current tenants. DUH.

The current tenants aren't getting the house, the house is owned by the UT Austin Alumni Advisory Board, and they are keeping the house. Your statement should read, "Dudes, you're not getting a 100 year old house that is privately owned just because you used to be affiliated with the organiziation that legally owns it outright."

I've got a son in that chapter, and while I'm not going to go into details -DON'T believe everything you read in the press, There is a "shock and awe" campaign going on by the national order.

Believe me when I tell you that the parents and alumni know everything going on. I've got reams of paperwork sent by the national order, the lawyers and the housing corp for the chapter. Both sides are keeping us all well aware of the goings on and legal proceedings.

Suffice it to say, that of all the families involved currently, throughout this whole mess, they've only lost one member, and they took a pledge class of 40 boys - sans membership with the national order. They are also a registered organization with the University of Texas, who saw no reason for suspension. So, yes, at this point I'd say they are a viable chapter.

The alumni are supporting the move to break with the order, in fact they felt it was the only way for the chapter to survive.

If what they were saying in the press was the whole story, do you think they would have been able to get liability insurance and have the full support of the alumni advisory board and parents?

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by srmom

The current tenants aren't getting the house, the house is owned by the UT Austin Alumni Advisory Board, and they are keeping the house. Your statement should read, "Dudes, you're not getting a 100 year old house that is privately owned just because you used to be affiliated with the organiziation that legally owns it outright."

I've got a son in that chapter, and while I'm not going to go into details -DON'T believe everything you read in the press, There is a "shock and awe" campaign going on by the national order.

Believe me when I tell you that the parents and alumni know everything going on. I've got reams of paperwork sent by the national order, the lawyers and the housing corp for the chapter. Both sides are keeping us all well aware of the goings on and legal proceedings.

Suffice it to say, that of all the families involved currently, throughout this whole mess, they've only lost one member, and they took a pledge class of 40 boys - sans membership with the national order. They are also a registered organization with the University of Texas, who saw no reason for suspension. So, yes, at this point I'd say they are a viable chapter.

The alumni are supporting the move to break with the order, in fact they felt it was the only way for the chapter to survive.

If what they were saying in the press was the whole story, do you think they would have been able to get liability insurance and have the full support of the alumni advisory board and parents?

SrMom - was waiting for you to chime in! I thought I remembered you had a son in that chapter. They were a great group of guys when I was at UT and I
knew that they had tons of oversight from their local alumni base. I also read the original letter about the break-off that explained how the alumni were the ones pushing for the move. I thought that alone spoke volumes about what was coming down from KA Order nationals.

[Kevin]

I'd be interested to see the lawsuit paperwork in this case. If KA Order HQ is making a claim for ownership of the real property of the chapter, I'd like to see the basis for such a claim. Fraternities are typically structured in a purposeful manner to shield the national organization's assets in the event of a major lawsuit. That's done by having independent housing corporations, not comingling chapter and HQ assets, etc.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'd be interested to see the lawsuit paperwork in this case. If KA Order HQ is making a claim for ownership of the real property of the chapter, I'd like to see the basis for such a claim. Fraternities are typically structured in a purposeful manner to shield the national organization's assets in the event of a major lawsuit. That's done by having independent housing corporations, not comingling chapter and HQ assets, etc.

Didn't you hear about these new-fangled one-way liability shields? SEE ALSO: "Piercing the Semi-Permeable Membrane"

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Didn't you hear about these new-fangled one-way liability shields? SEE ALSO: "Piercing the Semi-Permeable Membrane"

Yeah, I haven't heard of one of those.. Can you do that with an LLC? In my state we've come up with a number of different organization types (some using FOUR LETTERS!) maybe that's what those are? If such a creature exists, I need to form one of those.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Didn't you hear about these new-fangled one-way liability shields? SEE ALSO: "Piercing the Semi-Permeable Membrane"

Ug. When I saw Piercing the Semi-Permeable Membrane, my first thought was of Condoms and oil based lubricants.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by naraht

Ug. When I saw Piercing the Semi-Permeable Membrane, my first thought was of Condoms and oil based lubricants.

No, but those implements could serve as interesting metaphors for some corporate structures, so you're on the right track.

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by carnation

Worse yet, my 11-year-old glanced over my should and asked what a boner is.

Possibly has already had one...

[rdogbob]

Srmom-

Well if there is another side of the story, Omicron's spokesman hasn't done a very good job of getting the message out. Basically it sounds like they dont feel like the internal judicial process at KA National should have held them to any punishment whatsoever.

I am curious though at this passage from the Austin paper:

"Alden, who said the suspension was two years and not the one reported in the lawsuit, said another reason the group sought to break off from the national group was because the national office ordered all students living in the fraternity house to find other housing. The house would have been foreclosed without the revenue, Alden said."

I understand that significant improvements were made few years ago to the manor, but I thought it was funded through the sale of land in West campus? How could they have lost the house?