Freedom of Religion or Freedom From Religion

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by KDMafia

Maybe it's me but I don't see why this is listed as a bad thing. No one is saying that on their own time religious organizations can't promote their views. Hell I have had way more religious pamphlets handed to me than anything for atheism. The issue was based on freedom of religion. You can practice what you like but there is no reason that the gov't should support one religion at the exclusion of others or should make assumptions based on religion (I think this gets especially dicey at places that deal with memorials in light of different views of the afterlife and what it takes to get there).

Also, to answer how our gov't supports christiantity. Um, Presidents are sworn in the Bible, most president end their speeches with "may God bless America" There are National days of Prary which are generally attended by Christian pastors. Christmas is a federal holiday. The entire issue of rights deprived of Homosexuals is completely based on a religious foundation yet it has been encoded in our laws. There are many ways in which or gov't does express a Christian bent.

Which brings us back to the title of this thread and what LittleDragon posted, freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom from religion.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AnotherKD

I can't quote cause my phone won't let me...

But when you say "they" all the time, it's lumping every atheist into your same category, which isn't fair.

No, by "they" I'm speaking of organized, cultish, in your face atheists together. I think I've clarified that enough in this thread.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

So I fixed this for you. As I previously stated, a particular group of atheists MAY have a belief system, but saying ALL atheisism is a religion is stupid.

I never said ALL atheism is a religion, but many rabble rousing, christmas tree suing atheists do treat it as such.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by AnotherKD

But when you say "they" all the time, it's lumping every atheist into your same category, which isn't fair.

I think this is racism against atheism. Which I'm certain is called "raetheism".

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

No, by "they" I'm speaking of organized, cultish, in your face atheists together. I think I've clarified that enough in this thread.



I never said ALL atheism is a religion, but many rabble rousing, christmas tree suing atheists do treat it as such.

Atheism is such a waste of time anyway. Hey guys, lets create a religion (Dogma included) where we don't believe in religion!

Yes you did. You clarified yourself AFTER the argument started.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Yes you did. You clarified yourself AFTER the argument started.

Is that a bad thing? Lol

[KDMafia]

Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I think the argument for freedom from religion is the issue of making law respecting the establishment of religion. It has been interpreted that the United States can't endorse one religion over another and through issues related to only invoking one "god" and only using one religious symbolism there is an argument that I believe is valid.

Also, a belief system is not the same as a religion. We all have belief systems, but unless there is a specific dogma and unified rules it is not a religion. Therefore, just because athieists are vocal and may sue over their belief in how they view the constitution, that does not make them a religion any more than the NRA is a religion.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Is that a bad thing? Lol

No, and I acknowledged that in one of my posts. He does keep falling into lumping, though. I object when he tries to backtrack.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Also, can you point to some examples of how the government regularly supports Christianity?

Prayer in schools, town christmas displays or events (although really it's mostly a secular celebration of christmas) and so on. Mostly though it's distinctive in its lack of inclusivity. Prayer in schools is always Christian prayer, it is always a town Christmas celebration, not Eid, and so on. That's just the briefest bit on a local level. I really don't see why public funds should go to any of it.

Not necessarily lawsuit worthy UNLESS other groups have tried to gain equal time/space and been rejected, IMO. But either way I think it's inappropriate. Oh and we could discuss the conservative christian culture in the military, particularly in the academies, or the discrimination against gay people based on things written in a religious text, or laws against selling alcohol on Sundays.

Two words for you- conscientious objector.

How is that relevant to what I posted? I think you misread me. Unless military chaplains now exist to encourage service members to be conscientious objectors, you're making up your own topic here.

[SWTXBelle]

I am looking for the transcript - NPR had an segment some months back about military humanist chaplains.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AnotherKD

But when you say "they" all the time, it's lumping every atheist into your same category, which isn't fair.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

So I fixed this for you. As I previously stated, a particular group of atheists MAY have a belief system, but saying ALL atheisism is a religion is stupid.

Exactly. Y'all said what I was trying to say, but you did it with way fewer words.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Ha. Just continuing the debate! It's kinda interesting.

It's all good.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Exactly. Y'all said what I was trying to say, but you did it with way fewer words.

It's all good.

Lol...may husband says we argue to same point all the time. We just don't always speak the same language.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Is that a bad thing? Lol

You should know better, look who the source is.... I say yes, she says no, I say up, she says down...

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Yes you did. You clarified yourself AFTER the argument started.

Get over it.

Originally Posted by KDMafia

Also, a belief system is not the same as a religion. We all have belief systems, but unless there is a specific dogma and unified rules it is not a religion.

I disagree because if that was the case we wouldn't have sects or denominations.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

No, and I acknowledged that in one of my posts. He does keep falling into lumping, though. I object when he tries to backtrack.

Get over it.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Prayer in schools, town christmas displays or events (although really it's mostly a secular celebration of christmas) and so on. Mostly though it's distinctive in its lack of inclusivity. Prayer in schools is always Christian prayer, it is always a town Christmas celebration, not Eid, and so on. That's just the briefest bit on a local level. I really don't see why public funds should go to any of it.

I guess it's a different experience for everyone. I don't know what town you're from but I've never seen/experienced school prayers, town Christmas celebrations, etc in Michigan.

Not necessarily lawsuit worthy UNLESS other groups have tried to gain equal time/space and been rejected, IMO. But either way I think it's inappropriate. Oh and we could discuss the conservative christian culture in the military, particularly in the academies, or the discrimination against gay people based on things written in a religious text, or laws against selling alcohol on Sundays.

Once again, different experience for everyone. I've never lived in a place where one couldn't buy alcohol on Sundays.
DISCLAIMER (CUZ APPARENTLY ITS NECESSARY)- You can buy alcohol on Sunday's in the places I've lived but not till after noon.

How is that relevant to what I posted? I think you misread me. Unless military chaplains now exist to encourage service members to be conscientious objectors, you're making up your own topic here.

I didn't misread you, It's just that you didn't get the relevancy of what I posted. I don't blame you nor do I judge you because reading your post it's clear to me that you do not understand the role/influence/power/control (or lack of) of the military chaplain. It's totally understandable though, since you have never been in the military and probably have never met a real life chaplain

[SWTXBelle]

Atheists' lawsuit thrown out due to lack of standing:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...w/7673962.html


There's a great deal of debate related to the event. Apparently it was featured on a state website and official stationery was used for invitations - both of which can be construed as crossing the state/church line.

It's a fine line - Perry should be able to attend a religious event, but it shouldn't come across as being state-sponsored.

I loathe Rick Perry. His handling of the prayer event has been almost as heavy-fisted and bumbling as his handling of the governorship.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

You should know better, look who the source is.... I say yes, she says no, I say up, she says down...
Get over it.

I disagree because if that was the case we wouldn't have sects or denominations.

Get over it.

I guess it's a different experience for everyone. I don't know what town you're from but I've never seen/experienced school prayers, town Christmas celebrations, etc in Michigan.

Once again, different experience for everyone. I've never lived in a place where one couldn't buy alcohol on Sundays.
DISCLAIMER (CUZ APPARENTLY ITS NECESSARY)- You can buy alcohol on Sunday's in the places I've lived but not till after noon.




I didn't misread you, It's just that you didn't get the relevancy of what I posted. I don't blame you nor do I judge you because reading your post it's clear to me that you do not understand the role/influence/power/control (or lack of) of the military chaplain. It's totally understandable though, since you have never been in the military and probably have never met a real life chaplain

Got your goat. Want it back? It's lovely when you pretend not to be irritated. Change your story. Backtrack. You know you said something stupid. I have nothing to get over.

[Ghostwriter]

Here is a group called "Freedom From Religion" who have lost their lawsuit against Gov. Rick Perry and his "Prayer Day".

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...est=latestnews

I think the groups name says it all.