Osama Bin Laden Dead

[FHwku]

As a US Muslim I abhor the frat boy reaction. We should be celebrating the Arab spring, not this

Mona Eltahawy in New York
The Guardian, Tuesday 3 May 2011

i don't like that the writer characterizes celebration at Ground Zero as a "frat boy reaction." or when anyone feels like they need to chide someone else for expressing or having a feeling.
example:
i'm hungry.
how can you think about food at a time like this?

or:
i'm glad Osama bin Laden is dead.
you should never celebrate the death of another human being.

[IrishLake]

Anyone checked Wikileaks lately? Um, because a FB friend of mine has a picture of a dead Bin Laden on his page... and it looks pretty dang real, and he says he got it from Wikileaks. I can't check that site from work.

[knight_shadow]

Someone on my FB feed posted a pic that's apparently been floating around the net for several years. I'm not sure if I would want to see the real photo, though :-/

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

Anyone checked Wikileaks lately? Um, because a FB friend of mine has a picture of a dead Bin Laden on his page... and it looks pretty dang real, and he says he got it from Wikileaks. I can't check that site from work.

I know which picture it is--the local tabloid posted it on its website. It's a fake--a combination of an actual war casualty and a photo of OBL. I really really hope that it's not published.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

Anyone checked Wikileaks lately? Um, because a FB friend of mine has a picture of a dead Bin Laden on his page... and it looks pretty dang real, and he says he got it from Wikileaks. I can't check that site from work.

Nothing's been posted to www.wikileaks.ch since April. The photos floating around are 4chan/reddit photoshops.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Of course we will.

I think, as a New Yorker (but not one who was here during 9/11), I'm more willing to excuse the emotional responses as catharsis and finding "closure," than I am to accept these historic comparisons that make no sense. Note that I did not criticize the emotional responses, mainly the faux-intellectual blathering and assumptions that the War on Terror is over.

I know you didn't comment on the emotional responses, it was more of a general statement of my opinion. And as for historical comparison it's a bit more like if we'd gotten hitler in the middle of the war. But emotionally the feeling is probably similar and the only thing similar that they can think to compare it to.

Also comments about complacency make me chuckle. Most people are pretty complacent most of the time.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Also comments about complacency make me chuckle. Most people are pretty complacent most of the time.

Right? WTH are these people talking about? There won't be any complacency on the military/LE/DHS side of things, in fact we are actually in a heightened watch right now. Unless they are speaking of everyday civilians becoming complacent then -

I want to ask these people what they've done today to protect themselves from a terrorist attack and if it was any different than what they did a week ago (before Bin Ladens death) to protect themselves. I'm sure I'd get a deer in the headlight look as a response.

[IrishLake]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Right? WTH are these people talking about? There won't be any complacency on the military/LE/DHS side of things, in fact we are actually in a heightened watch right now. Unless they are speaking of everyday civilians becoming complacent then -

I want to ask these people what they've done today to protect themselves from a terrorist attack and if it was any different than what they did a week ago (before Bin Ladens death) to protect themselves. I'm sure I'd get a deer in the headlight look as a response.

Well I work at a Nuclear facility.... so.... yeah.... I'm allowed to use the word. We get it shoved down our throat 40 hours a week.

"Constant vigilance!"

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

Well I work at a Nuclear facility.... so.... yeah.... I'm allowed to use the word. We get it shoved down our throat 40 hours a week.

"Constant vigilance!"

Now don't be thinking that terrorism is over and start slacking cuz Osama is dead

But in all seriousness, people who say things like "Just because we killed Osama doesn't mean we can't get attacked again" annoy the hell out of me. No shit. Everyone above the age of 8 should know, or at least suspect, that.

Do people really think that the government is going to disband the terrorism task forces and take a four day weekend because Osama is gone? I don't know if it's ignorance or if the public just has a very low opinion of the people who work in the national security field. Probably a combination of both

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Right? WTH are these people talking about? There won't be any complacency on the military/LE/DHS side of things, in fact we are actually in a heightened watch right now. Unless they are speaking of everyday civilians becoming complacent then -

I want to ask these people what they've done today to protect themselves from a terrorist attack and if it was any different than what they did a week ago (before Bin Ladens death) to protect themselves. I'm sure I'd get a deer in the headlight look as a response.

I'm not so much doing more to protect myself from terrorism, but I did take some time to think about upcoming travel and that not will something happen, but when. Something happening could be the announcement of a foiled plot or an actual event, but there are people who will find motivation in the death of that man. I worry about my friends and family who travel and what could happen outside our borders. My reaction has been one of relief; we now know he is dead. Then it changed to one of uneasiness and I will admit, fear of retaliation.

I'm actually most concerned about the civilians of Pakistan, that can't be a good situation to be living in at the moment. Some may think Pakistan collaborated with the enemy and led us to him, and if not involved then damned for letting us get in the country and kill someone there. Reading outside USA news sources gives a lot of different perspectives and Britain has been the most fascinating to me. There are some who are pleased as they have emotions tied to their own attacks of July 2005 carried out by al Qaeda members, and by Osama dying it may be cathartic and bring some a sense of justice. There are also others who question the authority of the USA to go into a country they aren't occupying and kill someone.

A friend posted this on facebook, and I spent some time with the author when he spoke on campus. I don't agree with him 100%, but the part about reactions and curing diseases did get me thinking.

http://www.timwise.org/2011/05/killi...ge-and-revelry

[SOM]

A friend just sent me this link. It is a 1st person blog about what was going on in New York City Sunday/Monday. Written by a NYC beat reporter.
Through A New York Eye: A Bullet For Bin Laden
One Veteran Reporter's Tick-Tock On The Day Osama Got His
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/05/...for-bin-laden/

[Ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

My disclaimer would read that I used the term murder in a biblical sense, not a legal one.

I come from a long line of soldiers and if I've learned anything it is that no one wants to go to war and no one wants to kill another person. So, I would rather people expend their energies not celebrating bin Laden's death, but praying for the soldiers who bore the burden, and will have to deal with the psychological impact, of taking lives, as well as all the extremists who can still make the right choice about their involvement in evil activities.

I appreciate your sentiments though I cannot agree.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the soldier or soldiers who took down OBL will not lose any sleep over their task. I agree that the soldier/s who is/are responsible for taking another life/s may experience some tremendous psychological impact on their psyche because of these responsibilities but in this case I doubt that there will be serious problems. I don't know and can't predict their (Seals) future but I believe they will equate the killing of OBL to the killing of a "rabid" animal. In that same vain, I have no problem celebrating his death and the courage of our soldiers and sailors. Sometimes people have to die for the common good of mankind. OBL deserved an ignoble death and that is what he got.

In that celebratory vain I offer the newest cocktail:

The OBL - 2 Shots and a Splash of Water

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

I appreciate your sentiments though I cannot agree.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the soldier or soldiers who took down OBL will not lose any sleep over their task. I agree that the soldier/s who is/are responsible for taking another life/s may experience some tremendous psychological impact on their psyche because of these responsibilities but in this case I doubt that there will be serious problems. I don't know and can't predict their (Seals) future but I believe they will equate the killing of OBL to the killing of a "rabid" animal. In that same vain, I have no problem celebrating his death and the courage of our soldiers and sailors. Sometimes people have to die for the common good of mankind. OBL deserved an ignoble death and that is what he got.

In that celebratory vain I offer the newest cocktail:

The OBL - 2 Shots and a Splash of Water

If you don't know and can't predict how those soldiers will feel, perhaps immediately making predictions was in poor taste. If you're not the one making the shot, you really don't know how it will affect the shooter, or the others involved. Seals are heroes but not superheroes, and PTSD is always a possible outcome. It's entirely unrelated to whether the target deserved it.

/yes yes, rah rah USA and all that.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

I appreciate your sentiments though I cannot agree.

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

I have a sneaking suspicion that the soldier or soldiers who took down OBL will not lose any sleep over their task. I agree that the soldier/s who is/are responsible for taking another life/s may experience some tremendous psychological impact on their psyche because of these responsibilities but in this case I doubt that there will be serious problems. I don't know and can't predict their (Seals) future but I believe they will equate the killing of OBL to the killing of a "rabid" animal. In that same vain, I have no problem celebrating his death and the courage of our soldiers and sailors. Sometimes people have to die for the common good of mankind. OBL deserved an ignoble death and that is what he got.

Hell, I’m sure quite a few Americans (both soldiers and non-soldiers, alike) would have liked to have been able to take him down themselves. And on the other side of it, there are probably quite a few people (soldiers included) who would prefer never to be in a situation where they had to kill anyone.

But to assume/guess how those soldiers feel about this is not the issue here.

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

My disclaimer would read that I used the term murder in a biblical sense, not a legal one.

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Bundy and bin Laden both willingly succumbed to evil. Both of them were stopped, which was necessary for the safety of the rest of us. However (again speaking from a biblical perspective), all human life deserves respect and compassion. The loss of bin Laden is the loss of a leader that, had he been on the righteous path, would have been a powerful force for good. It is heartbreaking that he made the choices he did and was responsible for so many deaths. He had to be stopped.

I come from a long line of soldiers and if I've learned anything it is that no one wants to go to war and no one wants to kill another person. So, I would rather people expend their energies not celebrating bin Laden's death, but praying for the soldiers who bore the burden, and will have to deal with the psychological impact, of taking lives, as well as all the extremists who can still make the right choice about their involvement in evil activities.

I don’t think that Americans were celebrating a death, as much as they were celebrating the fact that what they had feared for so long was finally gone… that the person who killed our fellow Americans could no longer do so… that after searching for nearly a decade, the man that caused so much death and destruction had been caught. Take 9/11 out of the equation for a minute. Pretend that someone had shot and killed one of your close family members, and it was known that he had done the same to others. Now pretend that they couldn’t find him… for 10 years. You mean to tell me that if he was involved in some shoot-out with police (because there was no way he was going to go quietly), and he was shot and killed, you wouldn’t feel somewhat happy/relieved that he had been stopped?

This country has lived in fear for 10 years. That fear may have dissipated a bit since 9/11, but look at our airports, our office buildings, etc. Security is tighter than it’s ever been in this country, and yes, it is because of terrorism. I know people who still haven’t boarded an airplane since that Tuesday in 2001. I lived 40 minutes outside of Boston at the time, and I knew the daughters of one of the pilots of a plane that hit the WTC. My cousin’s best friend and his fiancé were killed on one of those flights. My stepmom was sitting on the runway at Logan, ready to take off when the news broke, and the plane turned around. I lived 2 minutes away from the FAA Center that the terrorists toured before the attacks (which can no longer be toured because of that very reason). They even took down all of the signs indicating where the building is, and removed the huge model airplane out front. Things changed, people were broken, and they finally found a reason to stand up and cheer.

Taking a life SHOULD be a difficult thing… And for many of our troops, I’m sure it is, especially when killing someone who seemingly has done nothing to them. And yes, I feel for them in that respect. But for these terrorists, it’s not difficult at all. Imagine waking up, every day of your life, thinking of and plotting ways to kill people on the other side of the globe, whom you’ve never even met, for seemingly no other reason than the fact that someone told you that you should hate them. Nineteen men were willing to give up their lives so that thousands of Americans would die. Compare that to the few dozen people on board Flight 93 who were willing to die to SAVE other people whom they didn't know, and never would. Who are the heroes here? Who should we feel “respect and compassion” for?

You can talk about evil taking over these people all day long, but the fact is, these terrorists (and especially Osama bin Laden) lived to hate. That’s it. Nothing more, nothing less. I believe that some people who kill can be rehabilitated. However, these people can’t. And yes, I’m glad he’s dead. And yes, if I lived in NYC, or DC, or if I was on one of the many campuses around the country going crazy over this, I would have been outside with everyone else, waving a flag and singing ‘God Bless America.’ It’s because of that bastard that security has been heightened even further these last few days, that our troops are being more cautious than ever, and that my brother is probably now in more danger in Iraq. Even in his death, OBL has somehow found a way to screw us. So fuck him, that’s what I say.

Originally Posted by FHwku

Mona Eltahawy in New York

Originally Posted by FHwku

The Guardian, Tuesday 3 May 2011

i don't like that the writer characterizes celebration at Ground Zero as a "frat boy reaction." or when anyone feels like they need to chide someone else for expressing or having a feeling.
example:
i'm hungry.
how can you think about food at a time like this?

On a lighter note, this made me think of the Seinfeld episode when Jerry and George are in L.A. looking for Kramer after he’s been accused of murder:


Jerry: Obviously we're gonna call the police and tell them that he's not the guy.

George: Hope he's not the guy.

Jerry: Couldn't be the guy... nah.

George: God, I'm starved, I'm weak from hunger.

Jerry: How can you think of food at the time like this?

George: Time like what? I'm hungry. My stomach doesn't know that Kramer's wanted.

[Ghostwriter]

^^^^well written. I agree with most.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

/yes yes, rah rah USA and all that.

Hmmm! This says it all. You should make it your signature.