Greek Romantic Troubles.

[prettyv]

First, I'm half embarrassed to bring this up to most of my sisters and the ones I did never would tell me the truth if it upset me... My friends from home don't really get the Greek aspects of it. So I've come to a message board.


My whole life I've been anti-love, if anything. I grew up in a house with an openly adulterous father and a door-mat mother. To me, love was hurt and pain, not anything you'd ever want to have for yourself. I spend all of high school and my early 20s serial dating, but never trusting anyone enough to get close to them. I was OK with this scenario, I thought it was the best option for humans.


Cue, my current boyfriend. Within minutes of meeting him, I was giddy. I had never been giddy before in my life. He is an amazing guy, he's everything a girl could ever want: handsome, sweet, romantic, understanding... I didn't think guys like that actually existed. I won't pretend like everything is ALWAYS perfect, but I'm happier than I thought I would ever be, and yes, I am totally in love.


Now, current boyfriend is like most people in the world. Had a first love, had a second love, now is dating me. It's hard for me to swallow that, as I've never been in love before, so it's hard for me to imagine that you can just NOT have feelings for someone that you loved anymore, but I've seen it with alllll my friends, so I get it. I get that this is more my issue than his, and for the most part am OK with our relationship and OK with the fact that he has loved before.


Me and boyfriend are not typical college students, in the sense we're a little older. We're not 30 or anything, but we're not 21 either. A lot of my friends are getting married, it's not weird for our age group to talk about it, I don't want anyone to assume I'm 18 and sketching "Mrs. Boyfriend" in my notebook or anything. We're at an age where marriage would be totally normal. We have talked a lot about getting engaged, I'm sure it's coming this year, but being the romantic he is, he would die if he couldn't surprise me with it.


The only sad part to my love story is... because boyfriend has been in love before... he also lavaliered his ex girlfriend. This breaks my heart. Some of his friends in the chapter have girlfriends who have been lavaliered, and when we hang out as a group, it feels glaringly obvious to me that I don't have his letters. When I brought it up to him, he was heartbroken too. He admitted he only lavaliered his girlfriend because she whined about it a lot, and he eventually caved, without much thought for what this would mean in the future. He feels awful about it, he wishes he could 'take it back', but it is what it is. I can understand that... But he doesn't think his chapter would be in support of lavaliering me, considering he already did it, and it didn't work out.


I'm not sure how to feel or what to do about this. Whenever I'm cold in our apartment and I go to grab a sweater, it's a reminder that I'm never going to be able to wear his letters. He said he could give me the lavalier without chapter support, if it meant that much to me, but to me that's just... wrong. I couldn't accept that.


I've talked to one guy in the fraternity who is like a brother to me about the situation. He knows how different and serious our relationship is, but he is also skeptical of the chapter's opinion on it. I'm a well-liked girl at this fraternity and even before we started dating, I was friends with most of the chapter... I'm certain they like me a lot and I have been deeply involved in their fraternity events, etc.


Has anyone ever dealt with a problem like this? Am I putting too much stock into his letters? Would it be weird to get engaged and then go back to the chapter? For guys in fraternities who lavalier, would his past relationship affect your support for him?


I would love, love, LOVE to be a part of something so important to him, I know how much his fraternity means to him... It would be a huge honor to wear them. I just don't know if that's plausible anymore and I should just forget it forever.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by prettyv

First, I'm half embarrassed to bring this up to most of my sisters and the ones I did never would tell me the truth if it upset me... My friends from home don't really get the Greek aspects of it. So I've come to a message board.


My whole life I've been anti-love, if anything. I grew up in a house with an openly adulterous father and a door-mat mother. To me, love was hurt and pain, not anything you'd ever want to have for yourself. I spend all of high school and my early 20s serial dating, but never trusting anyone enough to get close to them. I was OK with this scenario, I thought it was the best option for humans.


Cue, my current boyfriend. Within minutes of meeting him, I was giddy. I had never been giddy before in my life. He is an amazing guy, he's everything a girl could ever want: handsome, sweet, romantic, understanding... I didn't think guys like that actually existed. I won't pretend like everything is ALWAYS perfect, but I'm happier than I thought I would ever be, and yes, I am totally in love.


Now, current boyfriend is like most people in the world. Had a first love, had a second love, now is dating me. It's hard for me to swallow that, as I've never been in love before, so it's hard for me to imagine that you can just NOT have feelings for someone that you loved anymore, but I've seen it with alllll my friends, so I get it. I get that this is more my issue than his, and for the most part am OK with our relationship and OK with the fact that he has loved before.


Me and boyfriend are not typical college students, in the sense we're a little older. We're not 30 or anything, but we're not 21 either. A lot of my friends are getting married, it's not weird for our age group to talk about it, I don't want anyone to assume I'm 18 and sketching "Mrs. Boyfriend" in my notebook or anything. We're at an age where marriage would be totally normal. We have talked a lot about getting engaged, I'm sure it's coming this year, but being the romantic he is, he would die if he couldn't surprise me with it.


The only sad part to my love story is... because boyfriend has been in love before... he also lavaliered his ex girlfriend. This breaks my heart. Some of his friends in the chapter have girlfriends who have been lavaliered, and when we hang out as a group, it feels glaringly obvious to me that I don't have his letters. When I brought it up to him, he was heartbroken too. He admitted he only lavaliered his girlfriend because she whined about it a lot, and he eventually caved, without much thought for what this would mean in the future. He feels awful about it, he wishes he could 'take it back', but it is what it is. I can understand that... But he doesn't think his chapter would be in support of lavaliering me, considering he already did it, and it didn't work out.


I'm not sure how to feel or what to do about this. Whenever I'm cold in our apartment and I go to grab a sweater, it's a reminder that I'm never going to be able to wear his letters. He said he could give me the lavalier without chapter support, if it meant that much to me, but to me that's just... wrong. I couldn't accept that.


I've talked to one guy in the fraternity who is like a brother to me about the situation. He knows how different and serious our relationship is, but he is also skeptical of the chapter's opinion on it. I'm a well-liked girl at this fraternity and even before we started dating, I was friends with most of the chapter... I'm certain they like me a lot and I have been deeply involved in their fraternity events, etc.


Has anyone ever dealt with a problem like this? Am I putting too much stock into his letters? Would it be weird to get engaged and then go back to the chapter? For guys in fraternities who lavalier, would his past relationship affect your support for him?


I would love, love, LOVE to be a part of something so important to him, I know how much his fraternity means to him... It would be a huge honor to wear them. I just don't know if that's plausible anymore and I should just forget it forever.

qfp

[ASTalumna06]

I don't mean for this to sound snippy but...

You have a boyfriend that loves you, you love him, and you consider him not lavaliering you to be a problem? Seriously.. get over it and move on.

Don't turn into his ex who whined about it. It's not that big of a deal. And it REALLY won't be a big deal when you're not in school anymore.

[prettyv]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I don't mean for this to sound snippy but...

You have a boyfriend that loves you, you love him, and you consider him not lavaliering you to be a problem? Seriously.. get over it and move on.

Don't turn into his ex who whined about it. It's not that big of a deal. And it REALLY won't be a big deal when you're not in school anymore.

No, please. Be snippy. If I wanted rainbows, I'd stick to my sisters.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by prettyv

No, please. Be snippy. If I wanted rainbows, I'd stick to my sisters.

Cool. It's interesting because most of my Sorors (sorority sisters) were and still are the least rainbow people in the whole entire world. LOL. You all need to work on being loving and supportive but without the rainbows.

As for the original topic, I agree with ASTalumna. You have to weigh the costs and benefits of things and figure out which things are NOT deal breakers. He lavaliered his ex and can't lavalier the next. Such is life which is why, in my opinion, lavaliering and any other type of letter wearing should be reserved. Afterall, not every sorority and fraternity that has organizations for spouses (which are far beyond girlfriends and boyfriends) allows the spouse to wear the letters.

/end rant

[psy]

Wait... you can only lavalier one person, ever? I did not know that.

[AZTheta]

prettyV, do I understand that you are upset because you can't wear his letters? And, you wrote a short essay to GC about not wearing a fraternity lavalier? This is serious and not a joke, right?

Question:What kind of sisters would lie instead of being truthful to avoid upsetting you? That doesn't sit well with me on multiple levels.

OK, then, no rainbows. I am saying, "this is ridiculous." You're hung up on letters, and you may very well blow it with this man if you're expecting an engagement ring.

My advice: go out and do some volunteer work for your philanthropy. Stop thinking about yourself. You're coming across to me as not very mature, and if that's harsh, so be it. That's my call.

[DrPhil]

Yeah I wasn't going to mention that if you have your own letters, why are you so obsessed with wearing someone else's. The symbolism of lavaliering is only what you make of it.

psy, stop caring whether he can lavalier more than one person. LOL.

ETA: I actually confused psy with prettyv there.

[Optimus Prime]

I agree with DrPhil and ASTalumna.

While I think lavaliering is really nice and meaningful, I don't condone serial lavaliering. It takes the meaning and pride out of it for me.

You are lucky to have each other and be happy with that.

[IrishLake]

Originally Posted by prettyv

Am I putting too much stock into his letters?

Yes, you are. They are his letters, not yours. Try to put that much stock in YOUR letters. Who cares if you can't "officially" wear his letters? Wear YOUR letter sweatshirts.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Yeah I wasn't going to mention that if you have your own letters, why are you so obsessed with wearing someone else's. The symbolism of lavaliering is only what you make of it.

psy, stop caring whether he can lavalier more than one person. LOL.

^ This. Some groups can't lavalier or pin at all. Pretend his is one of them. Time to put on your big girl pants, realize its a situation that sucks for you, but it's out of your control. It won't be the first or last. Move on.

[prettyv]

Thank you. I genuinely appreciate your advice. I think all of you are probably right about a lot of things. I do, however, put a huge amount of effort and stock into my letters and my fraternity, so that's a little unfair to say.

You are right, though, that I am very immature when it comes to relationships. I readily admit that, and know I have a lot to learn, and a lot of growing up to do in that regard.

[FSUZeta]

when i was in college, lavaliering was akin to "going steady" and like you might wear your hs boyfriends class ring, in college he might give you his lavalier to wear.

if you and your boyfriend broke up in hs, you would give back his class ring. he might then give his class ring to the next girl friend he had. The same mindset works for the lavalier. even if his former girlfriend did not give his lavalier back, he could go buy a new one and give it to you, unless there is a rule against that within his fraternity.

honestly though, it's just an emblem. it is really how you feel about each other and how you treat each other that is important.

[excelblue]

I personally feel that you are worrying about the letters too much. Be appreciative of what you actually have instead of going after the symbols that represent it.

In terms of lavaliering, I'd imagine support from his chapter would come with time. Perhaps his brothers sense something that you and he doesn't see. Or, maybe a little bit more time may be necessary. In any case, focus on the relationship itself, and if it's really as strong as you think it is, the lavaliering might just come with time.

I cannot count the number of times I've had friends who've been in relationships which they think are strong, but from my perspective, have issues. That may even include some people who have been exclusively dating for multiple years. They often don't believe me until the breakup actually happens. So, don't get too anxious.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by prettyv

Thank you. I genuinely appreciate your advice. I think all of you are probably right about a lot of things. I do, however, put a huge amount of effort and stock into my letters and my fraternity, so that's a little unfair to say.

You are right, though, that I am very immature when it comes to relationships. I readily admit that, and know I have a lot to learn, and a lot of growing up to do in that regard.

You're quite reflective and responsive so you aren't the most immature person I've ever met or read on GC. Give yourself some credit as you did when defending the effort you put into your own fraternity.

BTW, thanks for removing the entertainment potential of this thread.

[aephi alum]

Put his fraternity aside for the moment. Set aside the fact that you are not currently entitled to wear his fraternity's letters.

Do you love him?

That's the question that you need to answer. Do you love him for all that he is - or do you just "love" him because he's a member of XYZ fraternity and you want to be able to wear his letters?

You have made the commitment to moving in together. That's a huge commitment. You don't just move in with someone you don't have feelings for.

Now, if you're really so hung up on being entitled to wear his letters... he can inquire with his fraternity about whether he can lavalier you after he's lavaliered someone else, or whether he can pin you, or whether you can wear his letters after you're engaged or married (if your relationship progresses to that point). Different fraternities have different policies.