Gay Emory Student Dragged From Frat Party

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I really hope this was a theme party or Halloween party. I don't know of anyone who thinks that wizard hat = freakum dress

It wasn't a costume party, hence all the undue attention the kid got.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

How do we know the opposite is not true too? I really doubt this young gay man just innocently walked into the party without knowing the 'vibe' of the fraternity, or the fraternity culture on that campus in general. Like I said, I don't think he is as innocent as you are trying to make him to be.

I'm kinda on board with you. But can you distinguish between the above paragraph and saying that a woman who was wearing a short skirt and a revealing blouse who got raped was asking for it?

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

These aren't actual adults? The '10 alum in question is probably 21 or older.

In reading the article, it looks like there's a consensus about the assault and slurs that were used. The disagreement is over why it happened and whether it was somewhat justified.

I didn't realize he was an alum, but that still doesn't mean he behaves like an adult. Whether you think he should or not. I know plenty of people my age still in school/just out that haven't yet made the transition from "college kid" to "adult". Not that I'm oh-so-mature at all times, but you get the picture.

I don't think there is a consensus because the article takes Wizard-kid and friend's word and Adam Smith gives his own account, and like Kevin said, both of these parties have a motivation to twist things. The one thing the two accounts do agree on is that the physical assault happened, and it shouldn't have. It's he said/he said and we're just left to draw our own conclusions.

Who thinks it's justified?

[agzg]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'm kinda on board with you. But can you distinguish between the above paragraph and saying that a woman who was wearing a short skirt and a revealing blouse who got raped was asking for it?

That was what I thought her next paragraph would be in any post, frankly.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'm kinda on board with you. But can you distinguish between the above paragraph and saying that a woman who was wearing a short skirt and a revealing blouse who got raped was asking for it?

Hijack/
What about looking, is that ok? If a man or a woman wear a specific cut of clothing JUST to highlight and show off their "asset's" is it fair to say that they shouldn't get offended or embarrassed if people look?

[lucgreek]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'm kinda on board with you. But can you distinguish between the above paragraph and saying that a woman who was wearing a short skirt and a revealing blouse who got raped was asking for it?

That's a little extreme (and unfair) comparison.

If I go to a Tea Party meeting wearing a pro-choice shirt, I'm not doing anything wrong per-say, but I'm definitely asking for trouble. If someone does something to me physically, obviously they are wrong. But it doesn't mean I'm completely innocent for going somewhere to get a reaction out of people.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

It wasn't a costume party, hence all the undue attention the kid got.

If his attire was unacceptable for the party, why was he allowed to enter?

*goes back to read the article*

[agzg]

Originally Posted by lucgreek

That's a little extreme (and unfair) comparison.

It's not that far, especially when you consider that it's all too often that rumors fly around that such-and-such a fraternity is full of rapists (or worse, a rape actually occurs).

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by lucgreek

That's a little extreme (and unfair) comparison.

If I go to a Tea Party meeting wearing a pro-choice shirt, I'm not doing anything wrong per-say, but I'm definitely asking for trouble. If someone does something to me physically, obviously they are wrong. But it doesn't mean I'm completely innocent for going somewhere to get a reaction out of people.

Fair enough...it's just that in this case he should have had the expectation he'd be kicked out of the party. He shouldn't have expected homophobic name calling and physical assault.

PiKA...I'll get flack for this, but on the rare occasion I go out and wear something that showcases my boobs, I'm doing it to get attention. And I'm not going to act like I'm not. So if a guy looks, fine. The only problem comes from the ones that don't know they're supposed to stop at looking. Looking? Fine, I put them out there. Asking to buy me a drink with a cheesy line? Skeeves me out but ok. (Though I never drink it unless I can watch the bartender making it and it gets passed straight to me) Asking me super personal questions about my sex life, or even trying to touch? I go make friends with the bouncer. (And I have had to do that, which is why I usually am pretty covered up unless I'm going out in my current small college town...not worth the risk of attracting super creepers).

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'm kinda on board with you. But can you distinguish between the above paragraph and saying that a woman who was wearing a short skirt and a revealing blouse who got raped was asking for it?

Others have answered what I would say, but since you asked me directly I'll give you my answer.

No, she was not asking for it. But her behavior and how she may have presented herself while wearing the said attire may not gain her a whole lot of sympathy. It is still wrong / illegal that she got raped, yes. But using good judgment she should not go into a situation where that might happen.

If she was just walking down the street and was attacked, she is morally and legally right.

If she went to a party with people she did not know, got isht-faced drunk and passed out,then woke up a realized she was raped,then yes, she should still press charges and those guilty should be prosecuted. But, in the end she made a bad choice that left her in that position.

All I'm saying is that given the circumstance / situation - use good judgment!!!

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by lucgreek

If I go to a Tea Party meeting wearing a pro-choice shirt, I'm not doing anything wrong per-say, but I'm definitely asking for trouble. If someone does something to me physically, obviously they are wrong. But it doesn't mean I'm completely innocent for going somewhere to get a reaction out of people.

Is this really comparable?

[Kevin]

So it would be fair to say here that neither party used good judgment, that the newspaper seems to have continued that trend by publishing this story, giving anonymity to the complainant whilst publicly trashing Mr. Smith.

This is a whole big ball 'o fail.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by Kevin

So it would be fair to say here that neither party used good judgment, that the newspaper seems to have continued that trend by publishing this story, giving anonymity to the complainant whilst publicly trashing Mr. Smith.

This is a whole big ball 'o fail.

Yes.... it is.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

I didn't realize he was an alum, but that still doesn't mean he behaves like an adult. Whether you think he should or not. I know plenty of people my age still in school/just out that haven't yet made the transition from "college kid" to "adult". Not that I'm oh-so-mature at all times, but you get the picture.

I don't get the picture. He is an "actual adult."

Coddling college students (those who are not only over 18 but no longer have "teen" at the end of their age) and alum as not "actual adults" does a huge disservice to higher education and Greek Life.

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

I don't think there is a consensus because the article takes Wizard-kid and friend's word and Adam Smith gives his own account, and like Kevin said, both of these parties have a motivation to twist things. The one thing the two accounts do agree on is that the physical assault happened, and it shouldn't have. It's he said/he said and we're just left to draw our own conclusions.

Who thinks it's justified?

From the article:

Guy's statement:
“This guy approached me and asked why I was wearing my hat. ... I said that I like the hat, just as you like your pink shirt. He then asked me if I was gay, and I said I was. He then started choking me with his elbow and put me into a head lock, and he dragged me out of the party by my neck.”

After the student was allegedly dragged the approximately 10 to 15 feet from the house’s common area to the door and thrown onto the front lawn, Smith was overheard telling other attendees “Hey, this kid’s a f****t.”

Adam Smith's statement:
"This kid was at the party, and was acting kind of ridiculous. I went over, took his hat and started dancing around," he said.

Smith then said he asked the student: "Why are you wearing this gay ass hat?" According to Smith, the student replied that it was for the "same reason you're wearing your pink shirt."

Smith said that he then asked if the student was implying that he (Smith) was "f***ing gay or something." Hearing an affirmative reaction, Smith then admitted to putting him in a head lock and ejecting him from the party.

I see an agreement that an assault happened and heterocentric language that is essentially gay bashing was used. The slightly different story that Adam Smith tells is that of why it happened and whether the student did anything to precipitate it (i.e. whether the actions aren't completely Smith's fault because they make a grain of sense despite being wrong----essentially what sigmadiva is arguing).

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevin

So it would be fair to say here that neither party used good judgment, that the newspaper seems to have continued that trend by publishing this story, giving anonymity to the complainant whilst publicly trashing Mr. Smith.

This is a whole big ball 'o fail.

If that simplistic and surface-level conclusion is all this boils down to then we could've stopped at page 1.