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02-09-2010, 04:18 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: A dark and very expensive forest
Posts: 12,737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demost
The problem is bad parenting.
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No, the problem is deported immigrants who keep coming back.
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18▲98
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02-09-2010, 04:21 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 14,146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticCat
No, the problem is deported immigrants who keep coming back.
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That, and everybody looking like a fool with their pants on the ground.
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*does side bends and sit-ups*
*doesn't lose butt*
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02-09-2010, 04:30 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Chicagorado
Posts: 4,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticCat
No, the problem is deported immigrants who keep coming back.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knight_shadow
That, and everybody looking like a fool with their pants on the ground.
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lololololololol at both of these!
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02-09-2010, 04:35 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: nasty and inebriated
Posts: 5,783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticCat
Welp, you'll have to get the US Constitution amended to change that. I really don't see that happening.
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Well it wouldn't be the first time. The constitution as written doesn't even mention citizenship at all. That was added on later. And honestly, I don't think it needs to be amended. Congress has the power to determine what qualifications for citizenship there are. Just get rid of a lot of the pointless stuff things. Maybe just have a simple residency requirement. Also I don't like the fact that immigrants are required to learn English to be citizens. I agree with it on a practical level, but there is no legal justification for it. It's not like English is the official language of the United States.
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And he took a cup of coffee and gave thanks to God for it, saying, 'Each of you drink from it. This is my caffeine, which gives life.'
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02-09-2010, 04:40 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: but I am le tired...
Posts: 7,283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knight_shadow
That, and everybody looking like a fool with their pants on the ground.
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Giddy-up!
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02-09-2010, 04:52 PM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Posts: 18,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito
I agree with it on a practical level, but there is no legal justification for it. It's not like English is the official language of the United States.
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Hmm... so you say that the law requires one to learn some English to be a citizen, but then you say there's no legal justification for it?
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SN -SINCE 1869-
"EXCELLING WITH HONOR"
S N E T T
Mu Tau 5, Central Oklahoma
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02-09-2010, 04:54 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: nasty and inebriated
Posts: 5,783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin
Hmm... so you say that the law requires one to learn some English to be a citizen, but then you say there's no legal justification for it?
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Well, the law states that those who wish to be naturalized need to learn English. But English has no official standing in the United States, so why that requirement?
__________________
And he took a cup of coffee and gave thanks to God for it, saying, 'Each of you drink from it. This is my caffeine, which gives life.'
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02-09-2010, 04:56 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: TX
Posts: 3,760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito
English has no official standing in the United States
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Do you honestly believe that?
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02-09-2010, 04:58 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: A dark and very expensive forest
Posts: 12,737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito
Well it wouldn't be the first time.
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No, it would be 28th time -- in 221 years. 
Quote:
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The constitution as written doesn't even mention citizenship at all. That was added on later. And honestly, I don't think it needs to be amended.
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It absolutely would have to be amended. The Fourteenth Amendment says "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside." That means being born here = citizenship. Trying to add anything to that would unquestionably be unconstitutional as the Constitution is currently framed. I can't imagine any amendment changing that gaining any steam at all.
Quote:
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Congress has the power to determine what qualifications for citizenship there are.
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No, Congress has the power to determine the requirements for naturalization. (Article I, § 8) Congress has no power to add any citizenship requirement for someone born in the US.
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02-09-2010, 05:04 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: TX
Posts: 3,760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticCat
No, Congress has the power to determine the requirements for naturalization. (Article I, § 8) Congress has no power to add any citizenship requirement for someone born in the US.
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I disagree, Congress has before in the past deemed who is and who isn't a citizen. Jus soli didn't just appear in the books.
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02-09-2010, 05:36 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: A dark and very expensive forest
Posts: 12,737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PiKA2001
I disagree, Congress has before in the past deemed who is and who isn't a citizen. Jus soli didn't just appear in the books.
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If you're referring to American Indians, that's because for a long time, they were not considered "subject to the jurisdiction of the United States." Since United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898), though, there's no doubt that if you're born here and are subject to the US law, you're a citizen.
I think anyone would have a very hard time arguing to the courts now that anyone born within the territory of the United States, with the exception of children of diplomats and the possible exception of children of illegal immigrants, is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. Regardless though, Congress simply doesn't have the power to add any other requirement for citizenship for those who meet the criteria of the Fourteenth Amendment, which is what Psi U MC Vito was suggesting.
To try and put it another way, there are 2 ways that one can become a US citizen:
1. By being born here and being subject to US jurisdiction. Most of us became citizens in this way. But the child of a diplomat would not because, even if he was born here, he would not be subject to US jurisdiction. If you meet both requirents (born here, subject to jurisdiction), you are a US citizen. Congress cannot impose any other requirement, like passing a test, on you, because you meet the constitutional requirements.
2. Naturalization. Anyone who doesn't fall under method one, including that diplomat's kid, can seek to become a naturalized citizen. Congress makes the rules on naturalization and can change those rules whenever it sees fit to do so.
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Last edited by MysticCat; 02-09-2010 at 06:48 PM.
Reason: clarity, I hope
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02-09-2010, 05:38 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: In a house.
Posts: 9,564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito
Well, the law states that those who wish to be naturalized need to learn English. But English has no official standing in the United States, so why that requirement?
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Where does it say that?
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Law and Order: Gotham - “In the Criminal Justice System of Gotham City the people are represented by three separate, yet equally important groups. The police who investigate crime, the District Attorneys who prosecute the offenders, and the Batman. These are their stories.”
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02-09-2010, 06:03 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: nasty and inebriated
Posts: 5,783
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__________________
And he took a cup of coffee and gave thanks to God for it, saying, 'Each of you drink from it. This is my caffeine, which gives life.'
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02-09-2010, 06:05 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: In a house.
Posts: 9,564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito
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Ok....cool
__________________
Law and Order: Gotham - “In the Criminal Justice System of Gotham City the people are represented by three separate, yet equally important groups. The police who investigate crime, the District Attorneys who prosecute the offenders, and the Batman. These are their stories.”
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02-10-2010, 11:10 AM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hotel Oceanview
Posts: 34,574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LookAtMeImADelt
I understand what you are saying, but parties are inevitable. You can't have an election on a national level without them forming to some degree.
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Why not? We have national media for them to disseminate their ideas. We have many means of communication for people across the nation to unite to work for the candidate.
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It is all 33girl's fault. ~DrPhil
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