Has someone of the opposite sex ever tried to pledge to your chapter?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Gusteau

Composite bingo made my day! If only abolishing auxiliary groups stopped that from happening!

I thought that I had read that Delta Chi banned auxiliary groups because of Title IX, but now I cannot for the life of me find the Fraternity's Statement of Position on the issue. This is the first time my Cornerstone has failed me...

I did a little digging and found a resource on why our fraternity, at least, banned little sister groups. These were the reasons:

1. The formation of auxiliary groups can (and has proven to) adversely affect the relationship between the local chapters of Sinfonia and local chapters of existing music fraternities for women.
2. Women's organizations and female faculty members often consider these auxiliary groups to be demeaning and sexist because the women involved in such groups are faced with the responsibilities of membership without the reward of full membership status in the fraternity.
3. The existence of such groups extends the already-broad range of chapter and national liability.
4. The functioning of a fraternity chapter and little sisters as a common unit at social and other events could jeopardize the Fraternity's single-sex membership, as suggested by the U.S. Supreme Court ruling in a case involving the Jaycees.
5. The existence of another chapter-sponsored group results in the diverting of time, effort, and money, which are needed for chapter operation and programming.
6. Because of the relationship between the groups, brothers sometimes share fraternity secrets with members of the auxiliary group, either knowingly or unknowingly.
7. Many individuals outside the Fraternity world view these organizations as formalized dating services. They are critical also because the women's focus in such groups is totally on the men rather than on their own personal development.

Item # 4 would indicate that a concern for losing single-sex status was indeed involved, but it was not related to Title IX. So I would repeat, I don't think Title IX had anything to do with it -- I frankly don't see how it would. I think it's just that so many people associate single-sex status with Title IX that there is an assumption the two are always related, and they're not.

[Gusteau]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Item # 4 would indicate that a concern for losing single-sex status was indeed involved, but it was not related to Title IX. So I would repeat, I don't think Title IX had anything to do with it -- I frankly don't see how it would. I think it's just that so many people associate single-sex status with Title IX that there is an assumption the two are always related, and they're not.

I still, to increased consternation, cannot find Delta Chi's official position on it. However, after reading your post I've realized that I know the wording is something along the lines of "jeopardizing single sex status" and the Title IX connection was probably a mental connection on my part.

[KD4Me]

I was in college when auxiliary groups were banned, and there was definite concern on the part of NPC groups (maybe fraternities as well, I don't remember that) that allowing them to continue could jeopardize the single-sex status of both fraternities and sororities. There may have been other factors as well, but that is the reason that we were given.

[Gusteau]

FOUND IT!

The resolution, passed in 1990, is not as specific as I originally thought - the only mention it makes of reasons for abolishing them is:

"the existence of such groups may engender harm to the Fraternity in a variety of ways"

[VandalSquirrel]

I still want to know who is collecting this data, and what it is going to be used for as it wasn't on the survey monkey page. Four classes on research methods in college makes me want to know who is wanting my opinion, under what authority, and why. I couldn't find a PI to contact if I had questions and that is a concern for me.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

There aren't rules about it where? I'm positive that most organizations clearly state which gender(s) they are open to.

Should they even have to? Is there a hermaphrodite fraternity?

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

Should they even have to? Is there a hermaphrodite fraternity?

Theta Chi specifically mentions males.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

Should they even have to? Is there a hermaphrodite fraternity?

You don't think it's necessary for an organization to specify who membership is open to?

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

Should they even have to? Is there a hermaphrodite fraternity?

Hermaphrodite isn't really an acceptable term anymore, and has been replaced with intersexed, which is still completely different than transgendered or transsexual.

It still comes down to membership selection, and as well all know that MS is private the issues and discussion (if any) will likely be handled there.

[preciousjeni]

In response to some of the other questions that have been posed...

If there were no legal repercussions:

1) Would I be willing to accept a transgendered aspirant (physically male/identifies as a woman): YES

2) Would I be willing to accept a transsexual aspirant (born male/reassignment surgery/identifies as a woman): YES

3) Would I be willing to accept a transgendered aspirant (physically female/identifies as a man): Probably not - If you identify as a man, I'd need a really good reason why you want to join a women's organization.

4) Would I be willing to accept a transsexual aspirant (born female/reassignment surgery/identifies as a man): Same as #3

5) Would I recognized a soror who was transsexual/transgendered, identifying as either a man or a woman: YES, without reservation.

Theta Nu Xi specifically indicates that membership is open to women. Like I said, it wouldn't make sense to me that someone identifying as a man would want to join.

We currently have members who consider themselves gender fluid and/or are trying to determine how they will ultimately identify. Gender - as well as other issues - is difficult to determine for many people because there aren't many choices. Either you're a woman or man. There isn't a whole lot else unless you want to endure the cruelty of the world and be your own person.

I consider myself biologically female, but on the scale from man to woman - gender-wise - I dance on the middle line, mostly leaning toward being a woman. That's probably TMI for some folks who are uncomfortable with this topic. If so, blame it on the QNX.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

3) Would I be willing to accept a transgendered aspirant (physically female/identifies as a man): Probably not - If you identify as a man, I'd need a really good reason why you want to join a women's organization.

I'd think that would pretty much void your chances of getting accepted for surgery.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I'd think that would pretty much void your chances of getting accepted for surgery.

Wouldn't it though?

Come to think of it, I believe several years ago, one of our chapters did have an aspirant who identified as a man. I don't know how far it went, but I do know he never joined. So, it's certainly not unheard of.

[akamie]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

I still want to know who is collecting this data, and what it is going to be used for as it wasn't on the survey monkey page. Four classes on research methods in college makes me want to know who is wanting my opinion, under what authority, and why. I couldn't find a PI to contact if I had questions and that is a concern for me.

Vandal- I was the person distributing the survey, and since I am a registered user of Greek Chat, and signed my posts as a member of Sigma Sigma Sigma, Eta Zeta chapter so in that avenue I think there were several ways open for you to contact me if you had any questions. First off, I haven't received any PM's on the topic so I'm assuming you didn't try that, but also a simple google search with my name and organization would've brought you to the website with my contact info, or at least contact info of my organization. You were certainly more than welcome to utilize those methods, and since participation is voluntary its a mute point anyway.

The research I conducted, and have decided to continue to conduct for the next couple of years, was as stated in my distribution letter a study designed to assess the attitudes of Greek Life towards Gender, and the participation of alternative lifestyles (in this case alternative gender classes) in Greek Life as component of participation in the student life polity. (This is what qualitative research calls an ethnography). The survey is only one method my research has utilized and the study as whole is objective, but in the realm of political sociology is attempting to expose power structures of the Greek Life system, and what could be a potential problem of inclusion/exclusion in politics. For anyone who is interested you can reference the 2007 District Court of Appeals case that upheld the College of Staten Island's refusal to recognize a fraternity on campus that was single-sex. Prior discussion on the matter ended with Title IX back in the 90s, but to those of you who think the matter is trivial I can point to that case as just one of many examples of how it is not, beginning as early as a 1985 California Law Review that would outline the constitutional claim of an individual denied access to a "College Social Organization" regardless of federal statutes like Title IX. There are also numerous "alternative" Greek organization that fall under neither NPC or NIC's umbrellas that are coed that have come as a backlash to exclusion. The point of the study is to provide the foundation for these kinds of discussions to take place, and to encourage the discussions to reach comprehensive policy status before the battle each chapter faces ends up in a courtroom like Alpha Epsilon Pi did in 2006...

I can't wait for the research to be complete, and I'll gladly share the results with everyone who wants them when the study is conclusive.

[akamie]

I also feel like its worth mentioning here that the comments made about individuals who go under a sex change are kind of irrelevant to my study, although very interesting as well!, since we're focusing on gender issues, which by the world health organization are defined by behavior, not physical state of being (which is sex). Of course whether or not thats a true definition is debatable, but accounted for in our survey.

Also, I should mention that my campus is very non-traditional. The current pledge class president is around 40 years old, and just now pledging to SAE, plus Greek Life membership doesn't end at 22- membership is for life so I think the matter is very relevant, especially in a society that is becoming increasingly genderless according to sociology literature.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by akamie

Vandal- I was the person distributing the survey, and since I am a registered user of Greek Chat, and signed my posts as a member of Sigma Sigma Sigma, Eta Zeta chapter so in that avenue I think there were several ways open for you to contact me if you had any questions. First off, I haven't received any PM's on the topic so I'm assuming you didn't try that, but also a simple google search with my name and organization would've brought you to the website with my contact info, or at least contact info of my organization. You were certainly more than welcome to utilize those methods, and since participation is voluntary its a mute point anyway.

The research I conducted, and have decided to continue to conduct for the next couple of years, was as stated in my distribution letter a study designed to assess the attitudes of Greek Life towards Gender, and the participation of alternative lifestyles (in this case alternative gender classes) in Greek Life as component of participation in the student life polity. (This is what qualitative research calls an ethnography). The survey is only one method my research has utilized and the study as whole is objective, but in the realm of political sociology is attempting to expose power structures of the Greek Life system, and what could be a potential problem of inclusion/exclusion in politics. For anyone who is interested you can reference the 2007 District Court of Appeals case that upheld the College of Staten Island's refusal to recognize a fraternity on campus that was single-sex. Prior discussion on the matter ended with Title IX back in the 90s, but to those of you who think the matter is trivial I can point to that case as just one of many examples of how it is not, beginning as early as a 1985 California Law Review that would outline the constitutional claim of an individual denied access to a "College Social Organization" regardless of federal statutes like Title IX. There are also numerous "alternative" Greek organization that fall under neither NPC or NIC's umbrellas that are coed that have come as a backlash to exclusion. The point of the study is to provide the foundation for these kinds of discussions to take place, and to encourage the discussions to reach comprehensive policy status before the battle each chapter faces ends up in a courtroom like Alpha Epsilon Pi did in 2006...

I can't wait for the research to be complete, and I'll gladly share the results with everyone who wants them when the study is conclusive.

Originally Posted by akamie

I also feel like its worth mentioning here that the comments made about individuals who go under a sex change are kind of irrelevant to my study, although very interesting as well!, since we're focusing on gender issues, which by the world health organization are defined by behavior, not physical state of being (which is sex). Of course whether or not thats a true definition is debatable, but accounted for in our survey.

Also, I should mention that my campus is very non-traditional. The current pledge class president is around 40 years old, and just now pledging to SAE, plus Greek Life membership doesn't end at 22- membership is for life so I think the matter is very relevant, especially in a society that is becoming increasingly genderless according to sociology literature.

You completely missed my point. I cannot do any research associated with my university without permission from the IRB (Institutional Review Board) and the HAC (Human Assurances Committee). Since you're dealing with human subjects, and asking about sensitive information such as sex and gender, I assumed you'd have to go through some office and have approval and faculty oversight. One shouldn't have to search for the details about the project, it should be readily available and perhaps the University of Alaska Anchorage has different standards for student research than other schools. However I didn't find your project listed here http://ugresearch.uaa.alaska.edu/~urps/view_student.php so I thought I'd mention that I couldn't find the information. I've never seen a study without a faculty contact, so I asked. We get so many people on here asking for help with their projects, and the fact your name and chapter is listed doesn't mean a whole lot as anyone can register on GreekChat, and we've had all kinds of crazy, including impostors and perps.