Johns Hopkins Undergrad Kills Burglar with a Samurai Sword

[littleowl33]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

This is what I also find a bit "disturbing" from one of the articles I read:

Kenny Eaton, 20, a junior political science major at Hopkins who lives nearby, said there was some tension between students and lower-income residents of nearby communities. The private Johns Hopkins is known for its health and science research and has about 4,600 undergraduates on its main campus.

"You take kids who are paying $50,000 a year (in tuition) and then put them out in a very dangerous city environment, it's almost like a clash of civilizations," he said.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...#ixzz0RDtG3hOX

Almost reflects on what I said earlier.

That area of town has seen massive change within the past 20 years...amazingly while JHU has grown quite a bit in that time, the areas around it has been allowed to go down thus creating this very atmosphere: gentrification.

I am so glad I left that area.

The neighborhood within a 3-4 block radius of campus has actually gotten very nice. Even in the 4 years I've been here, there's been significant development with lots of shops, restaurants and condos/apartments being added. It's improved the neighborhood significantly. And it's not all bad nearby - walk north towards Towson, and you're walking through a neighborhood of multi-million dollar mansions (professors and doctors, mostly).

However, when you walk 5-6 blocks east or south, you're in a very rough area. The house that this all took place at was within 4-5 blocks of campus, pretty much at the boundary. I actually walked by there today - it's a quiet, nice area (which is now swarming with reporters and vans). A lot of students live right around there. But it's pretty much an expectation that if you move to one of those houses, you're going to get robbed. It doesn't really matter what kind of security you put in, (or try to get your cheap landlord to put in). If they want in, they'll get in, and the police have other things to worry about. Burglary is small potatoes, and they don't really do anything about it. It really, really sucks. You feel powerless. And it's just not ok for things to go on the way they have. People just accept that getting robbed once or twice a year is going to happen, and I think that's totally unacceptable.

My facebook newsfeed has literally been this guy all day long, and I've only seen 2 or 3 students (out of about 100) denoucing what he's done. Just about everybody else has the attitude of "it's about damn time, good for him!". I fall somewhere on that continuum.

[DaemonSeid]

Once you go across Guilford Ave towards Greenmount you are asking for trouble...I will say this (JMO) from a lot of the college kids I have seen living in that area over the years, they have no idea of how that area is and have no idea about the community dynamics in all directions and sometimes they set themselves up for some of the crimes that happen...similar to the Asian student who was killed over there a few years back because of the guy that she let in...you just have to be aware of your surroundings and the people that you meet.

I will stand on this point and say that I don't condone what this guy did...because that easily could have been him dead. He should have called the cops and let the cops handle it. You can replace property, you can't replace human life no matter how worthless it is.

Even if he never does a day in jail, this will probably weigh on his conscience...nice way to turn 21.

[christiangirl]

I know someone who had two samurai swords in his apartment. He moved out awhile ago so I had to check and make sure this wasn't him.

That's nuts.

[littleowl33]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Once you go across Guilford Ave towards Greenmount you are asking for trouble...I will say this (JMO) from a lot of the college kids I have seen living in that area over the years, they have no idea of how that area is and have no idea about the community dynamics in all directions and sometimes they set themselves up for some of the crimes that happen...similar to the Asian student who was killed over there a few years back because of the guy that she let in...you just have to be aware of your surroundings and the people that you meet.

I will stand on this point and say that I don't condone what this guy did...because that easily could have been him dead. He should have called the cops and let the cops handle it. You can replace property, you can't replace human life no matter how worthless it is.

Even if he never does a day in jail, this will probably weigh on his conscience...nice way to turn 21.

It sounds a lot like you're insinuating that students "get what they deserve" for not knowing the area or the kind of people in it. Most of the Hopkins students come from other areas of the world that are not as rough as Baltimore and aren't as "street smart" as the Baltimore residents - but they shouldn't have to worry about being murdered in their own homes within a few blocks of campus (or right across the street, as Ms. Trinh was). For those of you who don't know, Ms. Trinh was an undergraduate who was murdered several years ago in her own apartment by a man who "tailgated" into the building via the bar in the basement. It was a really upsetting incident, particularly for the Greek community - Ms. Trinh was an Alpha Phi sister. If I'm misreading your post, correct me. But I think it's pretty insensitive to say that murdered Hopkins students brought it upon themselves by "setting themselves up" for crimes that occured when someone broke into their own home.

In terms of whether or not what he did was right - well, I don't condone senseless killing, but I definitely condone defending yourself, even if that means killing your attacker. I'm sure the student didn't go down there with the intent to kill, but he did bring something to defend himself with if need be. If he was being attacked, as he said he was, he absolutely had to right to do what he did. As for letting the police handle it... the burglar had 29 arrests behind him and was just released from jail this Saturday. I'm not advocating citizens taking the law into their own hands, but the police/justice system/what-have-you obviously failed the community here. Why is a man with 29 arrests, who has been burglarizing this same block for years and previously drew a gun on a cop, running around loose? THIS is why everyone is rallying behind this student - because finally, one of these criminals actually got punished for committing a crime. He chose this lifestyle and there is no excuse for his actions. If the student set out to kill him, no, I would not agree with that. But the student was defending himself, and the burglar was killed as he was lunging towards him.

Yes, it will weigh heavily on this student. He has gone home to be with his family and I can only imagine how difficult this whole thing has been for him. It sounds like one of those situations where things spiralled out of control - I'm sure he didn't wake up yesterday morning thinking, "I'm going to kill a man today." He's a 20-year-old kid. I have exponentially more sympathy for him than I do for the criminal.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by LAblondeGPhi

Who says that the guys hand was cut off first? What if it was one of the final wounds? Even if the intruder were rendered hand-less early on in the altercation, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't take him to the ground and incapacitate him. At that point, the intruder is fighting for his life, and I'm sure that he fought as hard as he could for as long as he could, despite a missing hand and lots of blood loss.

All of this is possible. It's a hypothetical. We don't know. I'm not even close to licensed in the state of MD. Take it easy - I'm merely pointing out there is a VERY legitimate pathway to legal action, even though I personally would find it distasteful.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I will stand on this point and say that I don't condone what this guy did...because that easily could have been him dead. He should have called the cops and let the cops handle it. You can replace property, you can't replace human life no matter how worthless it is.

Even if he never does a day in jail, this will probably weigh on his conscience...nice way to turn 21.

If someone breaks into my home and I'm there, I'm going to assume my life is in danger. I don't care about the property and I wouldn't kill someone over a dang TV. But I have no idea what your motives are for breaking into my home at night...you could be a burglar, or you could be a rapist or serial killer. I WILL protect myself, and though I may call 911 if I have the chance, I know they won't be there to protect me at the moment when someone does break in. A part of that kid may have been pissed off about being robbed the night before, but I bet he was scared as hell when he walked toward the garage with that sword. He knew he was going to confront the baddy, but for all he knew, he might have had a gun.

Was the garage attached to the house? Up here most of the houses are, so I'm going to assume that someone breaking into the garage would still count as breaking into the house since it's just a doorway separating the two.

I don't feel bad for the burglar in this case. Any time you break into a house you risk a confrontation with a homeowner determined to defend his/her self and family. And this was the second night in a row this guy went to that house to rob it? It was only a matter of time til he picked the wrong house.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

If someone breaks into my home and I'm there, I'm going to assume my life is in danger. I don't care about the property and I wouldn't kill someone over a dang TV. But I have no idea what your motives are for breaking into my home at night...you could be a burglar, or you could be a rapist or serial killer. I WILL protect myself, and though I may call 911 if I have the chance, I know they won't be there to protect me at the moment when someone does break in. A part of that kid may have been pissed off about being robbed the night before, but I bet he was scared as hell when he walked toward the garage with that sword. He knew he was going to confront the baddy, but for all he knew, he might have had a gun.

Was the garage attached to the house? Up here most of the houses are, so I'm going to assume that someone breaking into the garage would still count as breaking into the house since it's just a doorway separating the two.

I don't feel bad for the burglar in this case. Any time you break into a house you risk a confrontation with a homeowner determined to defend his/her self and family. And this was the second night in a row this guy went to that house to rob it? It was only a matter of time til he picked the wrong house.

I'm going to work backwards so pardon me:

1. I don't feel bad for the burglar either...you get what you deserve...he JUST got released from jail, long criminal history and goes out and commits the same crimes, hell, his death just saved taxpayers some dollars on a habitual career criminal.

2. The majority of the garages in that area of town are not connected to the actual houses

here is the picture of the site:



the house and the garage are detached...this is why I feel that the resident had no reason to go AFTER the suspect. He wasn't in the house, he was in the garage. He could have called 911 and left the house and be happy all he had to replace was property. He may have been pissed off about being robbed the night before but he still had little reason to confront the burglar. Again, this just as easily could be HIM dead and not the burglar.

@littleowl

That's not what I am saying especially for Ms Trinh, but to some degree there are students and residents ( I have seen for myself firsthand) who are truly unaware of what kinds of neighborhoods lie east and south of the Hopkins University area and as you said are not as street smart to know to keep themselves safe. Some find out the hard way and sometimes the first thing I hear is, "I didn't know it was this bad over here."

It's not like there is a 'sign' or a fence that states that you are now leaving the 'safe zone'. Nor is the change gradual. You step across the street and BAM there you are. And let's not kid ourselves either. There are some people come to that area that sees it as an adventure. They know fully well what happens in and around the Hopkins U./ Charles Village/ Waverly area and take full advantage of it. Whether they allow themselves to get caught up in it is and how they deal with it is up to them. So yes, to some degree some people who come have no clue but then there are just as many who come that do and straddle both worlds.

Again, with the growth of that area within the past 2 decades which is going into those low income areas, of course crime is rising and some of these poor kids as well as staff of JHU make 'easy' targets for criminals. And just because you have a well to do neighborhood north and west of the University (not 3 miles away from Greenmount and 33rd) doesn't mean it's a deterrent.

As for everything else, some of your points I agree and disagree, he does have a case for self defense but the only problem that I think he will have is that he left the house to go investigate rather than stay put barricading himself in or leave.

[KSig RC]

The biggest problem, of course, would be getting a jury to convict him - it's one of the ultimate in "letter vs. spirit of the law" issues, really, and while I can see both sides of the prosecutorial discretion argument, this would probably be a good place to exercise it.

Then again, one could argue it sets a dangerous precedent that may actually endanger the public, should they now take these issues into their own hands.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

The biggest problem, of course, would be getting a jury to convict him - it's one of the ultimate in "letter vs. spirit of the law" issues, really, and while I can see both sides of the prosecutorial discretion argument, this would probably be a good place to exercise it.

Then again, one could argue it sets a dangerous precedent that may actually endanger the public, should they now take these issues into their own hands.

But, it could be an even worse precedent if he takes the case to trial and gets some sort of jury nullification where they let the guy walk.

If there's been a crime problem in the area (like the previous posts mention), then you'll get a lot of sympathy from the jury for the swordsman in this case.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Then again, one could argue it sets a dangerous precedent that may actually endanger the public, should they now take these issues into their own hands.

Exactly.

For some reason I almost see this running something similar to what we saw in Texas with Joe Horn's case.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

But, it could be an even worse precedent if he takes the case to trial and gets some sort of jury nullification where they let the guy walk.

If there's been a crime problem in the area (like the previous posts mention), then you'll get a lot of sympathy from the jury for the swordsman in this case.

Yeah, that's what I meant by discretion - there's no real chance of conviction, so why even let it get that far?

[naraht]

There is a Wikipedia page that deals with this fairly well at (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_self-defense).

In short the student is screwed.

Maryland has a "duty-to-retreat" which for the case of property being stolen like that, he has to retreat, go back into the house and call the cops. The only reason he could use deadly force is if his life is being threatened and he has nowhere to go.

If the prosecutor chooses not to file charges, that is his/her decision, but I really think that with the information given that Manslaughter could reasonably be charged and convicted on.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by naraht

If the prosecutor chooses not to file charges, that is his/her decision, but I really think that with the information given that Manslaughter could reasonably be charged and convicted on.

I think the prosecutor would be neglecting his duties if he didn't file charges.

We have a similar case here in Oklahoma City where two kids attempted to hold up a convenience store. The pharmacist shot one of the kids in the head, not killing him, then chased the other outside.

The video footage of the incident shows the pharmacist calmly walk back into his store, walk around the counter, turning his back to the would-be robber, retrieving a second gun, walking over to the robber and shooting the robber in the chest/stomach five more times. The attempted robber turned out to be a 14 year old kid who had been put up to this by two 30-something men.

So now, the pharmacist is charged with Murder in the First Degree while the survivors/accomplices are all charged with felony-murder (Oklahoma is in the minority of states which don't follow the agency rule, so co-conspirators can be charged for the death of an accomplice).

Our D.A. did his job despite *massive* public outcry. I think justice has to be blind to politics. I have a huge amount of respect for our D.A. -- a guy who only won his last election by less than one-thousand votes.

Being burglarized does not give one license to hack someone to death with a sword. This is at the least voluntary manslaughter. Maybe even Murder.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I think the prosecutor would be neglecting his duties if he didn't file charges.

We have a similar case here in Oklahoma City where two kids attempted to hold up a convenience store. The pharmacist shot one of the kids in the head, not killing him, then chased the other outside.

The video footage of the incident shows the pharmacist calmly walk back into his store, walk around the counter, turning his back to the would-be robber, retrieving a second gun, walking over to the robber and shooting the robber in the chest/stomach five more times. The attempted robber turned out to be a 14 year old kid who had been put up to this by two 30-something men.

So now, the pharmacist is charged with Murder in the First Degree while the survivors/accomplices are all charged with felony-murder (Oklahoma is in the minority of states which don't follow the agency rule, so co-conspirators can be charged for the death of an accomplice).

Our D.A. did his job despite *massive* public outcry. I think justice has to be blind to politics. I have a huge amount of respect for our D.A. -- a guy who only won his last election by less than one-thousand votes.

Being burglarized does not give one license to hack someone to death with a sword. This is at the least voluntary manslaughter. Maybe even Murder.

He walked back and shot him 5 times??? Naaahhh...thats not even right.

ETA: Elsewhere In Baltimore, a man defends himself with a machete

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Being burglarized does not give one license to hack someone to death with a sword. This is at the least voluntary manslaughter. Maybe even Murder.

What if the man is armed? The burglar, i mean.