NPHC grade requirements?

[tld221]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Yeah, but there's currently a big gap between the lack of perfection I think you have in mind and the level that a lot of kids are at at the end of high school.

fair enough - even the student who needs the most help at an Ivy/highly selective school would be doing better with their writing than the best student at a less selective/community college.

i know these classes we are speaking of. my brother attends a community college that has these remedial classes, that are supposed to cover all those things he shouldve learned in HS.

it would be unfair for him to be in a regular four-year institution and fail an intro writing class knowing from the beginning that he couldnt do it. maybe this is the thinking of colleges that offer these remedial/non-credit courses serving to play catch-up.

and schools also offer remedial math courses to catch students up on HS math (hell, even middle school math, like percentages, basic trig and geometry). to pass calculus, you need to know this stuff cold and i bet even average students could benefit from this.

i think this shows that colleges are aware of that gap.

[SWTXBelle]

The private school at which I taught had a very comprehensive English program. The junior year incorporated a great deal of what I taught in college English 1301, and the senior year incorporated what I taught in 1302 (I even used college texts). Most of them went on to be exempted from freshmen English classes by virtue of the AP or their verbal score - and this is at schools ranging from U of Chicago, Yale, Penn, Stanford, you get the picture. Many of them got extra money helping students in their dorms with their papers!
But we had the luxury of designing our own curriculum - here in Texas you have to use "approved" texts for public schools, and the selection process can be very political. Even the most brilliant of public school teachers will have their hands tied by various curriculm and administrative requirements. That doesn't mean that there isn't quality instruction going on - it just means it can be difficult to jump through the hoops.
Another factor, I feel, is that when I graduated with a B.A. in English I had TWICE as many English credits as someone who graduated with an Education degree with an English emphasis.
There are a multitude of reasons why many public school students do not graduate with what I would consider acceptable reading and writing skills. One of my former students reported back from Baylor that when asked what their favorite novel they had read in high school was, all of the Houston ISD students reported that they had not read any - just short stories. Teachers with crushing class loads are simply not going to be able to require the kind of work most students need to hone their skills.
I do think the situation may be getting better - I have three 1302 courses to teach in the fall, so I'll let you know. The essay portions of the ACT and SAT should, at the very least, let colleges know which students are weaker.
If I had my druthers, I'd require students who were weak in English skills to take remedial classes at their local community/junior classes the summer before their freshman year.

eta - My alma mater has a Writing Center to help with "Writing across the Curriculum" - a program that incorporates writing in ALL academic disciplines. The idea is that any graduate of Texas State will be a competent writer.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by alum

Many schools have writing centers for their undergraduates including all of the highly selective Ivies.


I would expect to see a writing center at an engineering school but an Ivy?

I went to two of the writing centers you linked to so the counselors could look at my honors and masters' theses. Basically, I was so sick of reading them by the time they were due that I wanted another set of eyes on them. Also, I wanted to make sure I had Chicago Style down, since most of my papers in college were MLA; both theses had to be Chicago Style. It worked out really well, since both have been published since I graduated and it cut down on the amount of editing I had to do in order to send them to the journals.

A writing center is not the same thing as a remedial class.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

I bet your campus does now. It's pretty standard to offer 090 level English and math classes.

Nope. Just checked the English Department's website. They still have the introductory classes based on whether you're in the sciences or the humanities, but no remedials!

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Nope. Just checked the English Department's website. They still have the introductory classes based on whether you're in the sciences or the humanities, but no remedials!

The State University campus I went to didn't have remedial math or english when I started 11 years ago and they don't have it now.

Remedial courses are offered in the system, but students have to enroll in Community College for them.

Munchkin, I'd be if Brown offered remedial courses.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Nope. Just checked the English Department's website. They still have the introductory classes based on whether you're in the sciences or the humanities, but no remedials!

I don't think your alma mater does offer them, but I don't think they were listed with the regular classes even at UGA back in the day.

I never took one, but there was a whole separate office of developmental studies that offered the remedial stuff. Does anyone remember the Jan Kemp scandal with UGA football players?

[alum]

I agree that writing centers and remedial classes are two different entities. It just surprises me that the schools to which I linked would even need writing centers.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

But I don't think Writing Center necessarily equals a remedial program, does it?

Nope.

Writing centers are just resources for students (undergrad and sometimes grad--eventhough undergrads use them the most). Most undergrads at most colleges and universities need help with their writing. And even students who write well need help organizing and writing papers.

Most people, in general, need help with their writing--including many graduate students and many faculty and professionals--reviewers for journals have a field day over some submissions.

None of my universities have remedial English. There are intro English classes, the writing centers, and the disabilities services centers.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by alum

I agree that writing centers and remedial classes are two different entities. It just surprises me that the schools to which I linked would even need writing centers.

And I described a situation where a writing center would be needed, or at the very least, helpful. I don't see what's so surprising about that.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by alum

I agree that writing centers and remedial classes are two different entities. It just surprises me that the schools to which I linked would even need writing centers.

It doesn't surprise me. That's like acting surprised that every college and university has a Discriplinary Action Committee. Writing centers are standard for colleges and universities regardless of prestige ranking, entry requirements, and GPA of the student population. There's a need.