high school girl doesn't get to be valedictorian

[alum]

Originally Posted by RaggedyAnn

This is sad. Where was her guidance counselor? And why didn't he/she point this out to her parents? If it were my child, she would be taking a very light load of classes her senior year and would take some college level classes at the same time, if it meant she would get a free ride to college-though with her GPA, she probably is getting a scholarship and this is just because it's not fair. They should change the terminology to number of credits/classes taken, versus years for in the future.

And how exactly do you get a 5.898? What's the scale?

It is the parents' and child's responsibility to read the handbook that explains policy and procedures. It is not up to the counselor to handhold every family and explain every policy in the book. However, if the family HAD read the policies and asked for an explanation the coundelor would have had to elaborate or get the parents some POCs of higher-ups in the school system.

We had to learn this the hard way regarding our oldest. Our child went to the same hs for 9th, 10th, 12th and the first 1/2 of 11th. The second 1/2 of 11th, she was serving on the Hill and went to the US House of Reps Page School in the LoC. She had 3 APs at her base hs during her 1st semester of 11th grade and continued the courses at the highest level that the Page school offered. The highest level was called Honors and not AP. She also took the corresponding AP exams in May and scored 5s on all 3. Our school system would not grant her AP weighted averages for these 3 classes despite the fact that she had scored a perfect score on the exams AND the fact that she had started the coursework in our school system. So she only got 4.0s for those 3 classes instead of 4.5s . Our school system doesn't grade-weight Honors classes, only AP/IB.


If she has maxed out the AP offerings at her high school where apparently an A gets you 6 points, an A in a regular class is just going to lower her GPA.

I'm not familiar with TX public unis so I don't know if they give merit-based schols to instaters. I have heard that only the top 10% of TX high schoolers are admitted to UT Austin. So if you are in the 11th percentile at Great High School and you have stellar SATs and ECs, you still may be denied admission to give a spot to the 5th percentile kids from Bad High School with lousy SATs and ECs. Perhaps Srmom can elaborate

I live in VA and neither UVA nor W&M have merit-based scholarships for instaters. There are Monroe Scholars but unfortunately there is no money attached to the honor. Jefferson Scholars is a UVa program to attract OOSers to Charlottesville. W&M has corresponding programs.

Ironically, my dad had sent me a copy of this article a couple of days ago. Many decades ago my father graduated from a competitive Boston-suburb public high school in 3 years and headed off to MIT at the ripe old age of 16. He also didn't speak English until he came to the USA when he was 8 so he had some catchup to do. He was not allowed to be valedictorian despite his GPA being the best of the class ahead of him. The lack of val status didn't phase him in the long run and certainly didn't affect his career in any way. However, the fact that he actually sent me the link indicates to me that some twinge may have resurfaced.

[ComradesTrue]

Originally Posted by alum

I have heard that only the top 10% of TX high schoolers are admitted to UT Austin. So if you are in the 11th percentile at Great High School and you have stellar SATs and ECs, you still may be denied admission to give a spot to the 5th percentile kids from Bad High School with lousy SATs and ECs.

Close.

If you are in the top 10% you are guaranteed admission to a UT-system school of your choice. Currently, UT Austin is the choice of so many that a very, very high percentage of admissions must go to these individuals. (I don't believe they envisioned this when the rule was created). However, there are some spots left for stellar students that may happen to be from very competitive high schools.

The concept remains controversial for the reason that you mention. The counter argument is that it gives opportunity for the kids from inner city or rural schools who may not otherwise have the chance to get into UT.

[SoCalGirl]

Why not lower the percentage? The UC system guarnatees admission to the top 4% of CA high school graduates.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by tld221

And is this common, valedictorians getting a full ride just because they were #1? Or is this Texas-specific?

I think it is more school-specific, not necessarily Texas-specific. But I do know that when I graduated HS, our Valedictorian received a full-ride scholarship, but she didn't take it. Many schools that accepted her gave her a scholarship for being valedictorian.

Originally Posted by alum

It is the parents' and child's responsibility to read the handbook that explains policy and procedures. It is not up to the counselor to handhold every family and explain every policy in the book. However, if the family HAD read the policies and asked for an explanation the coundelor would have had to elaborate or get the parents some POCs of higher-ups in the school system.

I'm not familiar with TX public unis so I don't know if they give merit-based schols to instaters. I have heard that only the top 10% of TX high schoolers are admitted to UT Austin. So if you are in the 11th percentile at Great High School and you have stellar SATs and ECs, you still may be denied admission to give a spot to the 5th percentile kids from Bad High School with lousy SATs and ECs. Perhaps Srmom can elaborate

Again, I graduated 5 years ago, so it might be different for HSers now, but the only merit-based scholarship I remember being talked about was the Longhorn Scholarship that was offered by UT. If i remember correctly, a few people applied for it, but no one received it from my HS (and we all had stellar grades)

Plus a lot of school "handbooks" don't really have anything written about graduating in 3 years. Our handbook mainly had dress code and code of conduct policies.

Our counselors encouraged people who had stellar grades to graduate in 3 years. I guess its mainly because we come from a lower income city, so if you graduate in 3 years you were guaranteed a $1000 scholarship.

Originally Posted by SoCalGirl

Why not lower the percentage? The UC system guarnatees admission to the top 4% of CA high school graduates.

From what I understood they were trying to get rid of the guaranteed admission all together.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by tld221

and furthermore...



This is TOTAL crap. I'd be pulling all SORTS of race cards. I dont give a damn. This girl is getting all sorts of supplementary awards to make her feel better about--gasp--actually doing better than this guy who completed his work in the regular timeframe.

And the article says

Again, CRAP. Convienent that no one has solutions for this young woman and everyone--the state, the local district, the principal and the guidance counselor--is just like "oh well. here's a cookie." and even more convienent that this school has "never had a situation like this." Whatever man. i SO call bs.

I see no race card in this situation. Why would you even bring that up?

Originally Posted by 33girl

It's a stupid techincality in the way the district's policy is written. All they need to do is fix it (fix it, fix it - sorry too much Danity Kane last night LOL) to say the highest GPA is the valedictorian, period, and it'll be OK going forward.

Like B said in her original post, if the guy who was given the honor and didn't deserve it would man up and say she's the one who should get it, there wouldn't be an issue. But I guess that's a rather quaint concept nowadays.

Maybe he does but his parents would kill him? It's possible.

Originally Posted by Blondie93

Close.

If you are in the top 10% you are guaranteed admission to a UT-system school of your choice. Currently, UT Austin is the choice of so many that a very, very high percentage of admissions must go to these individuals. (I don't believe they envisioned this when the rule was created). However, there are some spots left for stellar students that may happen to be from very competitive high schools.

The concept remains controversial for the reason that you mention. The counter argument is that it gives opportunity for the kids from inner city or rural schools who may not otherwise have the chance to get into UT.

This is why a girl from my town (city whatever) fought to get rid of Affirmative Action at UofM.


How does one even graduate in 3 years from high school anyways? I'm confused on how one of my sisters graduated from college in 3. 5 is pretty much the norm now.

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

How does one even graduate in 3 years from high school anyways? I'm confused on how one of my sisters graduated from college in 3. 5 is pretty much the norm now.

I teach in a Dallas-area district (Grapevine-Colleyville is in Dallas-Fort Worth metro area). It is actually quite easy. We have students who take 8 classes during the normal school year, will take an evening class, and then take 1-2 classes in summer school.

Freshman year - 8 credits regular school, 1 credit evening school, 2 credits summer school = 11 credits.

Sophomore year - same 11 +11 = 22 credits.

Junior year - 8 credits. 22 + 8 = 30. And they only need 26 to graduate. We have students who do it.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

How does one even graduate in 3 years from high school anyways? I'm confused on how one of my sisters graduated from college in 3. 5 is pretty much the norm now.

It actually it is not that difficult to graduate HS in 3 years. In my HS you only needed 24 credits to graduate. During middle school you can get HS credit for speech, keyboarding, Algebra 1, Spanish/French. Then in HS you can "test out" of Spanish/French, and I believe other classes (although i dont remember which ones), then there are classes that you could take in the summer.

One of my sorority sisters is graduating college in 3 years.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Maybe he does but his parents would kill him? It's possible.

Oh, I think you're absolutely right. I think if it was just the kid's decision he'd say "this is kind of lame" and go for it. Especially since her grades are much higher than his - we're not talking tenths and hundredths of points here.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

How does one even graduate in 3 years from high school anyways? I'm confused on how one of my sisters graduated from college in 3. 5 is pretty much the norm now.

It would've been hard for me to graduate high school in three years, but I believe it's still the case at most private colleges for students to graduate in four. In fact, with so many high achievers now coming to college with tons of AP credits, some are graduating college in three.

Originally Posted by epchick

It actually it is not that difficult to graduate HS in 3 years. In my HS you only needed 24 credits to graduate. During middle school you can get HS credit for speech, keyboarding, Algebra 1, Spanish/French. Then in HS you can "test out" of Spanish/French, and I believe other classes (although i dont remember which ones), then there are classes that you could take in the summer.

We could get high school credit for one year of a foreign language when we took it in 8th grade, but we had to save the rest for high school, where most of us took an additional two or three years. Is that not common anymore? I would think that as college admissions have become more challenging, students would be taking more than one or two years of a foreign language. At my university, all students have to take a foreign language through a third year level; if you've taken three or four years of a language in high school, you can probably test out of a year or two in college, but if you haven't, there's no way you're passing out of that requirement.

[alum]

Originally Posted by epchick

It actually it is not that difficult to graduate HS in 3 years. In my HS you only needed 24 credits to graduate. During middle school you can get HS credit for speech, keyboarding, Algebra 1, Spanish/French. Then in HS you can "test out" of Spanish/French, and I believe other classes (although i dont remember which ones), then there are classes that you could take in the summer.

One of my sorority sisters is graduating college in 3 years.

This is very true regarding graduating in 3 years. My oldest had hs credits in Algebra I and French I that she took in ms. My youngest took Algebra I, Geometry and French I in ms, all of which will count as hs credits when he starts hs. Now if only I had convinced them to drop their respective band and orchestra classes and instead taken Latin I in addition to French I in 8th....

The boy featured in this article http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...091901779.html graduated from UVa in 1 year. He did roll in near 72 credits from AP scores but of course still had to complete 60 credits at UVa to earn an undergraduate degree from UVa.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by alum

This is very true regarding graduating in 3 years. My oldest had hs credits in Algebra I and French I that she took in ms. My youngest took Algebra I, Geometry and French I in ms, all of which will count as hs credits when he starts hs. Now if only I had convinced them to drop their respective band and orchestra classes and instead taken Latin I in addition to French I in 8th....

This brings up another question: so we know it's possible now to graduate high school in three years. But why would you want to? For geniuses I get it, but to just get it over and done with, why would anyone push themselves/their teen to do it? By the time I was to my jr/sr year in high school, I wanted to enjoy every bit of time with my friends that I could.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

We could get high school credit for one year of a foreign language when we took it in 8th grade, but we had to save the rest for high school, where most of us took an additional two or three years. Is that not common anymore? I would think that as college admissions have become more challenging, students would be taking more than one or two years of a foreign language. At my university, all students have to take a foreign language through a third year level; if you've taken three or four years of a language in high school, you can probably test out of a year or two in college, but if you haven't, there's no way you're passing out of that requirement.

At my high school it was required to have 2 years of foreign language.

How it works is that IF you take a language (the only options are Spanish or French) for BOTH (it has to be both) your 7th and 8th grade years, then you get one year of HS Foreign Language credit--which meant you only needed 1 more year of a language. We also have credit by exams, so if lets say you wanted to test out of Spanish, you took the credit by exam and if you got a 4 or 5 then you'd get the credit w/o having to take the class.

W/ the credit by exam, you could test out of both years of a foreign language, as long as you passed each correlating exam. My best friend did that---she tested out of our 1st year of Spanish.

At UTEP (i'm not sure how it works elsewhere in TX) you are REQUIRED to take a pre-exam before you can take a Spanish or French class. So essentially, it didn't matter how many years of a language you took. If you scored poorly on the test you were required to take the lowest language class, and visa versa if you scored highly on the test.

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

This brings up another question: so we know it's possible now to graduate high school in three years. But why would you want to? For geniuses I get it, but to just get it over and done with, why would anyone push themselves/their teen to do it? By the time I was to my jr/sr year in high school, I wanted to enjoy every bit of time with my friends that I could.

For the people that did it at my high school, it was solely for the scholarship you'd receive for getting it. True $1000 is not a lot, but when you can use it on whatever (it wasn't necessarily earmarked for only tuition), its a desirable option.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Oh, I think you're absolutely right. I think if it was just the kid's decision he'd say "this is kind of lame" and go for it. Especially since her grades are much higher than his - we're not talking tenths and hundredths of points here.

Maybe the whole senior class should pull a "Rudey" -- come into the principal's office one-by-one, lay their caps and gowns on his desk and announce they won't be at graduation unless she's the valedictorian.

[Senusret I]

alum: I honestly think he will feel that real life is excruciatingly boring and slow if he pursues a career in patent law. Great story though, I appreciate you sharing it.

[AGDee]

PM_Mama: With Michigan's new graduation requirements, it would not be possible for someone to graduate in 3 years. Requirements and opportunities clearly vary by state.

My daughter's class has to have:
4 credits Math including at least Algebra I, Algebra II, Geometry and a math class your senior year
4 credits Language Arts, specified : 9th grade, 10th grade, 11th grade, and 12th grade
3 credits Science: Biology, Chemistry or Physics and one additional class
3 credits Social Studies: US History and Geography, World History and Geography, .5 Civics, .5 Economics
1 credit: Phys Ed & Health
1 credit: Visual and Performing Arts
2 credits: Other language

In the past, you could take 6 credits per year, so that would leave 6 credits of elective work or (obviously for college bound kids) another credit of science and social studies and 4 electives. They are moving to trimesters to allow more elective space so they can get up to 7.5 credits per year in many districts. If a child is in band, they must take it all 3 trimesters so they will have 1.5 credits in band per year.

My daughter's high school schedule will look like this each year:
1.5 credits band
1 credit language
1 credit math
1 credit science
1 credit social studies
1 credit language
1 credit elective (which will be Phys Ed/Health in 9th grade)
If it weren't for the trimester thing, college bound kids had no opportunity to take any electives.

However, the way the requirements are worded, you must take 4 years of math and English and there is no budging on that. They also don't allow you to do summer school unless you've failed a class and night classes aren't available either. Therefore, in our area, graduating in 3 years is, in fact, impossible. In fact, since my daughter had Algebra I in 8th grade, she will not get high school credit for it as they did in the past because the requirements clearly say she has to take 4 years IN high school. I am thankful for the trimesters because it will allow her to take some of the electives that she is interested in like Journalism, which is her intended career right now.

Our schools also do not adjust GPA for AP or Honors classes starting with the class of 2011 (my daughter is class of 2012).