Letters on Bid Day???

[APhi Sailorgirl]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

it may be a tradition of your chapter that new members wait to wear letters, but zta does not have a national policy that prohibits new members from wearing them. one of my proudest moments was being given my big sisters zta jersey to wear until the ones my pledge sisters and i ordered came in. back in my day, if you could not wear letters, you had nothing to wear until after initiation-this was way before the t shirt phenom. happening nowadays.

you are correct that uninitiated members cannot possess the zta crest.

FSUZeta, please correct me if I am wrong and my memory may not serve correctly, but I am assuming you are referring to sewn letters? When I was in my senior year of college the ZTA colony gave all of the new members white t-shirts with teal letters. I cannot remember if the crest was also on there on not. These were screen printed shirts with letters not sewn.

This was of course much before they were chartered b/c they received the shirts in the fall and were not chartered until the end of the spring semester.

[33girl]

A lot of times too, it's a campus thing. No one knows how or where it started, just that State U has a tradition of Greek pledges not wearing letters. In this case, I don't think pledges should be forced to wear letters - they'll be set apart from their peers on the rest of the campus and that, too, can be construed as hazing. This is why new chapters often adopt the "tradition."

It's like frilly rush - if everyone stopped at the same time, maybe that would work, but no one wants to be the first.

[SthrnZeta]

With every chapter being so spread out, it's inevitable that some chapters may believe one thing and another believe something else. I agree that it shouldn't happen and that's what unifies us (our universal traditions) and most things remain the same (rituals, etc.) but ZTA doesn't even have an official mascot so there's bound to be some differences between chapters. I agree it shouldn't be that way, but unfortunately it can't be helped.

[SthrnZeta]

33girl, I totally agree with you - you're really looking at the flipside of things and I hadn't even thought of how the girls felt in the orgs that gave out letters during their pledge period... It was obvious to us as NMs because only one chapter that I can remember did it on my campus at the time (I think it was AXiD). Good post!

[adpiucf]

If a sorority has a national policy that allows members to wear letters, it is up to the individual to choose if she wants to wear them or not as they please.

I think there are many benefits to a new member wearing Greek letters or at least wearing the letters spelled out in Roman characters. Why? Public Relations. The more the campus sees your letters out in full force, the more your sorority becomes a household name. If members are charged with adhering to high standards of conduct, the name is impressed as being a large group of classy ladies.

I'm pro-letters, however you choose to wear them. I don't really think it is a good idea for pledges to take a vote to forbear, as a majority, from an activity (wearing letters) that they are permitted to partake in as a matter of sorority policy. Are there any sanctions for a new member who wears letters or a laveliere, etc., who doesn't adhere to this rule? If there is no penalty, then it probably isn't a big deal, especially if the campus culture is such... but it is entirely possible for new members to haze fellow new members, so it could be seen as hazing. I say "could be seen," not that it is.

However, you'd be hard pressed to get your nationals to concur if a traveling consultant buzzed through town and spent time with your chapter during the NM period if this was something that was brought to her attention. And having traveled to chapters, I probably would say most would not notice what the NMs not wearing letters b/c it isn't like making them wear ribbons 24/7 or forbidding them from speaking before being spoken to, etc-- things that are obviously hazing. I think taking a new member vote not to wear letters might be viewed as a fuzzy area, but I am pretty sure it would be frowned upon though not necessarily dealt with. The sorority has much bigger fish to fry.

Southern, I'm not condemning your chapter with these thoughts. Just airing general experiences and thoughts.

[SthrnZeta]

I think our NM Coordinator felt that by letting us vote as a pledge class what we wanted to do, it wasn't hazing. I see your point though, but I have to agree with 33, if I wore letters and all of the other girls I went through recruitment with in other chapters didn't, I'd feel weird. It's about campus culture and your particular chapter in general. Obviously, if one girl wanted to wear letters she had bought in excitement over getting her bid, then there's no one to tell her she can't in ZTA (I think the only person that would have, had that happened, would have been another NM who didn't know better). It's not as big a deal as you're all saying that I'm saying it is - just a personal belief that I have and shared with my chapter. I agree with your point about marketing though, which is why we would have days that we would all wear certain shirts (something from recruitment or bid day, etc.) that our NMs had as well so we were all unified. We would have letters days too, but they were usually during recruitment when any NMs we had would have already been initiated. Trust me, we took public relations very seriously during recruitment since we were a smaller chapter.

[FSUZeta]

i think that the george mason chapter covered it well when the new member coordinator allowed the new member class to vote on whether to wear letters or not. by doing so they ensured that the chapter could not be accused of hazing.

someone asked what letters i was referring to having worn as a pledge. back in my day-mid to late 70's-sororities at fsu did not have t-shirts for every occasion and event-in fact i don't remember any t-shirts for any events until my senior year when i was a rush counselor and we r.c.'s were given "go greek" t-shirts to wear. my chapter wore turquoise jerseys(similar to a football jersey in design) with silver stitched Z T A letters on the front-stitched like one stitches an applique. we could have our name stitched in the same silver fabric on the back like where football players last names appear on their jerseys. i don't have a photo, because my jersey is long gone.

the zeta colony would not have received shirts with the crest on them prior to their initiation. that is strictly forbidden, and most likely the shirts would have been supplied by our international office and they would not have made that mistake.

[lilzetakitten]

Originally Posted by APhi Sailorgirl

FSUZeta, please correct me if I am wrong and my memory may not serve correctly, but I am assuming you are referring to sewn letters? When I was in my senior year of college the ZTA colony gave all of the new members white t-shirts with teal letters. I cannot remember if the crest was also on there on not. These were screen printed shirts with letters not sewn.

This was of course much before they were chartered b/c they received the shirts in the fall and were not chartered until the end of the spring semester.

APhi Sailorgirl, I think we go (went?) to the same school

So if you did go where I think you went, then crest was not on the Bid Day shirts. It was the letters, with a crown over the Zeta, which we received at our Bid Day party.

[PiPhiERDoc]

It is actually NOT an international rule that Pi Phi's cannot wear letters until initiation. This was a tradition at many chapters for years, including my own - we could not wear letters or Beta (so just shirts that said Pi Phi spelled out). But that practice is discouraged now by our internationals.

[Scandia]

I was wondering about Pi Beta Phi's policy. The girl who used to live in my house before my family moved there pledged Pi Phi during her sophomore year (my junior). I saw her with a totebag that had the Greek letters "Pi Beta Phi" on it. I do not remember if I saw her wearing a t-shirt with the Greek letters- but the handbag certainly had them. So the UF chapter (Florida Delta) may not have been one who enforced this tradition.

Alpha Epsilon Phi and Kappa Alpha Theta were the two that I noticed that would not allow the Greek letters till initiation.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by PiPhiERDoc

It is actually NOT an international rule that Pi Phi's cannot wear letters until initiation. This was a tradition at many chapters for years, including my own - we could not wear letters or Beta (so just shirts that said Pi Phi spelled out). But that practice is discouraged now by our internationals.

Interesting, that rule is still enforced on my sister's campus as they had issues with a Greek Week shirt.

[AOII Angel]

In AOII we give new members letters immediately. There is no prohibition. They may not know the meaning of AOII yet, but by our selection process, we choose girls who unknowingly live it anyway! (I'm sure every other group does the same!!) We were not allowed to have lavaliers or roses until initiation, but I think that was a local tradition. I have not seen the new member manual in years, so I don't know what it says about this issue. Since we don't have a crest and our rose is usually substituted, my chapter reserved red roses for intiated sisters. I've seen other chapters do the same...giving PNMs pink roses at recruitment instead of red and wishing with them that the rose will turn red.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by PiPhiERDoc

It is actually NOT an international rule that Pi Phi's cannot wear letters until initiation. This was a tradition at many chapters for years, including my own - we could not wear letters or Beta (so just shirts that said Pi Phi spelled out). But that practice is discouraged now by our internationals.

We were told there were 2 rules when we pledged: don't wear letters or the crest before initiation and don't come onto a sister's boyfriend. A lot of people on GC have asked me about the "don't wear Beta" rule and I never heard of that rule until I came to GC. I can't even figure out why we would have it.

[angelove]

At least in the mid-80's when I was an active, it WAS Pi Phi's international policy not to allow pledges to wear letters, it said so in the pledge manual. I guess changed internationally a few years later. We also weren't allowed to wear the arrow (not just the badge, but any arrow) but I don't remember if that was just our chapter or an international thing. Time to get the old pledge manual out of the attic.

[texas*princess]

At my alma mater, new Pi Phis could have the greek PI PHI letters on their shirts, but not the Beta.