MLB Hall of Fame

[KSigkid]

So the Hall of Fame voting results are released next Tuesday, and they could be interesting results because of Mark McGwire's eligibility. Also eligible for the first time are Cal Ripken and Tony Gwynn, with notable returns being Goose Gossage and Jim Rice.

Who would you vote for, and why? I'll post more explanation when I have a chance, but I'll say right now that McGwire would get one of my votes.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

So the Hall of Fame voting results are released next Tuesday, and they could be interesting results because of Mark McGwire's eligibility. Also eligible for the first time are Cal Ripken and Tony Gwynn, with notable returns being Goose Gossage and Jim Rice.

Who would you vote for, and why? I'll post more explanation when I have a chance, but I'll say right now that McGwire would get one of my votes.

Mine pretty much mirror Keith Law's from ESPN:

-Ripken: Clearly one of the top 3 shortstops in history, with the highest-ever WARP scores when adjusted and underrated defense, a no-brainer even without the (overrated) streak

-Gwynn: Not just an inclusion because of the mythical 3000 hit plateau - also one of the best pure contact hitters of all time, relative to era, and alll-around solid at the plate

-McGwire: Uh, seriously? Top 15 in HR/SLG, put up a couple of the best seasons in recent history, and the most feared hitter in the league for about a decade. Clear inclusion.

-BLYLEVEN: Clearly the best pitcher not in the Hall - amazing Ks and Wins, he compares favorably to Nolan Ryan, and no one doubts his inclusion, right? He wouldn't even be in the bottom third of HOF pitchers . . .

-Gossage: Better than Sutter in every conceivable, reasonable way

I think I could be talked into Trammell, as well, but these are the no-brainers for me.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Mine pretty much mirror Keith Law's from ESPN:

-Ripken: Clearly one of the top 3 shortstops in history, with the highest-ever WARP scores when adjusted and underrated defense, a no-brainer even without the (overrated) streak

-Gwynn: Not just an inclusion because of the mythical 3000 hit plateau - also one of the best pure contact hitters of all time, relative to era, and alll-around solid at the plate

-McGwire: Uh, seriously? Top 15 in HR/SLG, put up a couple of the best seasons in recent history, and the most feared hitter in the league for about a decade. Clear inclusion.

-BLYLEVEN: Clearly the best pitcher not in the Hall - amazing Ks and Wins, he compares favorably to Nolan Ryan, and no one doubts his inclusion, right? He wouldn't even be in the bottom third of HOF pitchers . . .

-Gossage: Better than Sutter in every conceivable, reasonable way

I think I could be talked into Trammell, as well, but these are the no-brainers for me.

Well that made my post easy - mine mirror yours, except Trammell is a definite on my list. His numbers put him in, in my mind, and it's ridiculous he hasn't gotten more support. Of course, my favorite ballplayer, Donnie Baseball, has no shot whatsoever.

At least it will be better than last year. WTF Sutter?

[Thrillhouse]

Gwynn, Ripken Jr., and I have changed my opinion on this one..... McGwire.

My steroid era theory is that if a lot of players were doing it during their time, than why didn't everyone hit 50 HRs at one time?

Homer pick is Harold Baines who was consistant but not special.

[polarpi]

The results are in.....

Congratulations to Cal Ripken Jr. and Tony Gwynn on their election to the Hall of Fame!

[USCTKE]

congrats to Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken Jr. definitely two of the best ever

Goose Gossage should get in as well

as far as McGuire goes I would vote for him...he has admitted to using some sort of performance enhancer (NOT STEROIDS)...but when he took it it was completely legal and you could buy it over the counter at GNC. Yea Jose Canseco says he gave him steroids or whatever...but Canseco is a washed up has been who would say anything to make a buck.

Barry Bonds...I would never vote for...he is a punk, a black eye on the game...I hope he never plays another inning of baseball. If he does break Hank Aaron's HR record it will be the WORST day in MLB history. Hank Aaron was a great baseball player, one of the best of all time...Barry Bonds is a disgrace to the game.

While Im at it Pete Rose should be in the HOF as well.

Rose for what he did on the field as a player...definitely some of the greatest numbers ever put up, cant agree with betting on game as a manager, but unless there is proof he bet against his own team and then managed the game to lose, I think he should go in as a player.

and just because he is from SC Shoeless Joe Jackson should be in the HOF as well.

[KSigkid]

Well, two good (if obvious choices), although this election highlighted many of my problems with the baseball writers association.

- 23.5% for McGwire is what I expected, but the guy was a Hall of Fame player, and we have no proof of cheating. I don't like the idea of the voters voting because of guesses and assumptions.

- The Chicago voter who left his ballot blank should have his vote removed. I didn't realize the baseball writers were responsible for the moral fabric of society. On that matter, anyone who left Ripken and Gwynn off their ballot should also have their votes removed. I mean, seriously? Is it that important that we not have someone in at 100%.

- How did Alan Trammell get 40 something less votes than Steve Garvey? And how do you elect Bruce Sutter last year, but not Goose this year?

Until some big changes are made in the make-up of the association (taking away votes, and giving memberships to guys like Will Carroll, Joe Sheehan and other new-age baseball journalists), I'm resigned to results like this.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by USCTKE

Barry Bonds...I would never vote for...he is a punk, a black eye on the game...I hope he never plays another inning of baseball. If he does break Hank Aaron's HR record it will be the WORST day in MLB history. Hank Aaron was a great baseball player, one of the best of all time...Barry Bonds is a disgrace to the game.

While Im at it Pete Rose should be in the HOF as well.

for what he did on the field as a player...definitely some of the greatest numbers ever put up, cant agree with betting on game as a manager, but unless there is proof he bet against his own team and then managed the game to lose, I think he should go in as a player.

Wait . . . so Barry did something that was of dubious legality (and was not specifically prohibited), and never failed any sort of test . . . but he's worse than Pete Rose?

Barry's actions may have disrupted the sanctity of the record book . . . maybe. The pitchers using PEDs are just as responsible, and it was rampant.

Pete Rose put wagers on games he was actively involved in, violating the sanctity of the game.

I can't see how Bonds is the worse of the two - it's nonsense. You seem to completely ignore the fact that Bonds has never failed a drug test under MLB rules - while he 100% used PEDs, he's NEVER violated MLB's testing program. Rose undermined the very validity of games.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by USCTKE

congrats to Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken Jr. definitely two of the best ever.

We did a satellite interview with Gwynn today, who is now a college baseball coach.

Good guy and very well spoken.

[sdbeta1]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

We did a satellite interview with Gwynn today, who is now a college baseball coach.

Good guy and very well spoken.

Not a very good baseball coach, might I add. He spends a lot of time broadcasting ESPN games instead of spreading his knowledge at San Diego State. I may be biased, but USD definitely has an edge in recruiting the area over State.
As for the hall, Gwynn and Ripken are obvious nominees.
No to McGwire, Sosa, and Palmeiro. Yes to Clemens, and Bonds!

[macallan25]

You can't exclude a 3000 hit 500 home run guy from the Hall, i.e. Palmeiro. I don't care that he lied to Congress. Hell, every pitcher the guy faced the last 10 - 15 years could have been juiced. More pitchers have tested positive than position players. I wouldn't necessarily disagree with someone if they made an argument for Clemens juicing it up. He is uber competitive, obsessed with performance......and looked like a brick standing on the mound the last few years.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by macallan25

You can't exclude a 3000 hit 500 home run guy from the Hall, i.e. Palmeiro. I don't care that he lied to Congress. Hell, every pitcher the guy faced the last 10 - 15 years could have been juiced. More pitchers have tested positive than position players. I wouldn't necessarily disagree with someone if they made an argument for Clemens juicing it up. He is uber competitive, obsessed with performance......and looked like a brick standing on the mound the last few years.

This is the problem people don't understand - the power hitters are the ones who get accused, but it could just as likely be a pitcher, or even a speed guy/basestealer. Just because someone hits 40 home runs, that doesn't make him any more of a suspect than a guy who is throwing 100 mph.

Baseball writers seem to be looking for the easy scapegoat - one of the Baseball Prospectus guys hit in on the head, Jose Canseco said the words many baseball writers wanted to hear, and they're running with the possibilities and accusations.

[TonyB06]

This is the key point. With no testing in place by major league baseball, you have no proof of who did or did not do what. Personally, I think the public is tired of whole debate/issue. Sports media, as a part of its ever-increasing antagonism with sports figures (and vice versa) is driving this.

Do I think Barry Bonds juiced up? Probably, yes. Until it's proven, leave him alone. Same for the rest. Make your HOF judgements on what they did on the field. If you can PROVE illegalities, do so. Otherwise, STHU.

For me, as a compromise position, Bonds and McGuire are HOF's but not first ballot.

Ripken and Gwynn were locks for the HOF.

[KSigkid]

I forgot, Tim Raines (a 1st ballot HOF, easy, in my opinion), is on the ballot next year. I can't imagine the writers would be creative enough to vote him in on the first ballot.

As to Bonds, I would vote him in first ballot. I agree with you though, Tony, and I think the big problem is the HOF voters trying to elevate themselves to some sort of moral majority.

[Buttonz]

Cognrats to both Ripken and Gwyn...both two great plays that deserved it.

A class of Raines and Gossage would be nice next year. I do agree that both Shoeless Joe Jackson and Rose should be in the Hall, I hope one day they get in.