Atheists as members?

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by Liberal_South

I don't think Atheists should be a member, since wehn you join a glo you take an oath to that organization and most importantly to god. And if you don't believe in god, then there is nothing to hold you accountable.

Hmmm.... well other than I guess your honour as a gentleman or as a lady...

[Corsulian]

Originally Posted by Liberal_South

I don't think Atheists should be a member, since wehn you join a glo you take an oath to that organization and most importantly to god. And if you don't believe in god, then there is nothing to hold you accountable.

Sure, I agree that from the standpoint of someone who is not an Atheist the whole thing doesn't seem to make sense. It especially doesn't help that many Atheists treat the term as a religion in and of itself and so claim to represent all others.
Allow me to retort: As it turns out, "God" for many Atheists in Greek Life is more of a concept than anything else. When I swear to my oaths "under God" I'm swearing my oaths to the respectable simplification of moral guidance and ethical conduct that our founders saw fit to enact. I'm not a Christian, and I don't believe in God. But I can't entirely say that I'm not religious, for my fraternity is my religion. It's values are great enough to guide me to live a good life, do well by others, and hopefully die having made the lives of others not only improved and happier, but also changed in such a way that they would also seek to do well by others whenever possible.
Perhaps not everyone is comfortable with this definition, but I've yet to be confronted about it.

[Drolefille]

So if you don't swear an oath by God, it's not a real oath?

Huh.

Not every GLO includes an oath to God within it. Just because yours does doesn't mean that's the end all be all of GLOs...

[Liberal_South]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

So if you don't swear an oath by God, it's not a real oath?

Huh.

Not every GLO includes an oath to God within it. Just because yours does doesn't mean that's the end all be all of GLOs...

If this is reflected at me, I never said my fraternity was the end all of glos, however, I did assume that all glos have an oath to god in them, an assumption I am going to stick with. It is like an atheist swearing an oath to tell the truth in court. What would be the meaning of that oath? Nothing.

[Dionysus]

When I pledged, I had to swear on a stack of bibles as tall as me. I dropped out eventually. I'm gonna burn baby burn!!!!!!1

[Drolefille]

So if you don't swear to God.. then it doesn't count?

I don't understand that concept. Most oaths made do not involve one to God.. I'm not even talking about fraternity oaths. Atheists in court swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth... adding God in doesn't change anything.

Besides that, how many people "OMG SWEAR TO GOD" and don't mean that either.

Many GLOs have Christian or other religious connections. Even those that do may not swear an oath TO GOD or BY GOD. Heck, they could say a prayer and still not swear to or by God.

[Liberal_South]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

So if you don't swear to God.. then it doesn't count?

I don't understand that concept. Most oaths made do not involve one to God.. I'm not even talking about fraternity oaths. Atheists in court swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth... adding God in doesn't change anything.

Besides that, how many people "OMG SWEAR TO GOD" and don't mean that either.

Many GLOs have Christian or other religious connections. Even those that do may not swear an oath TO GOD or BY GOD. Heck, they could say a prayer and still not swear to or by God.

Back in the day it was enough to swear upon your sacred honor, however, nowadays honor doesn't mean anything. When was the last duel you heard about due to an infringement upon someone's honor? It was the same thing with God and oaths. Now neither mean anything, with proof coming from the fact that atheists are allowed to make oaths.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Liberal_South

Back in the day it was enough to swear upon your sacred honor, however, nowadays honor doesn't mean anything. When was the last duel you heard about due to an infringement upon someone's honor? It was the same thing with God and oaths. Now neither mean anything, with proof coming from the fact that atheists are allowed to make oaths.

You're still not making sense. The vast majority of oaths taken do not involve God. Are you saying that even if they Don't involve God, a Christian's oath is better than an atheist's?

What about a Muslim's word? Or a Buddhist's, or a Hindu's, or a Wiccan's?

What about a Jew's.

Does it have to be swearing by YOUR God?

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

You're still not making sense. The vast majority of oaths taken do not involve God. Are you saying that even if they Don't involve God, a Christian's oath is better than an atheist's?

What about a Muslim's word? Or a Buddhist's, or a Hindu's, or a Wiccan's?

What about a Jew's.

Does it have to be swearing by YOUR God?

Very good point.

So, the thing is if a possible new member knows what may be in store as far as swearing to some one or something and do not feel comfortable then why even think about joining?

I am curious, what does and Atheist beleive in?

So is it not also true that people are invited to become members? It is not just a right to join. GLOs are selective groups of people anyway.

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by Liberal_South

Back in the day it was enough to swear upon your sacred honor, however, nowadays honor doesn't mean anything. When was the last duel you heard about due to an infringement upon someone's honor? It was the same thing with God and oaths. Now neither mean anything, with proof coming from the fact that atheists are allowed to make oaths.

I think you have a very skewed perception of what honour is, if you use duels as a measure of it

Anyways like my Fraternity Brother Tom said above - GLOs are selective, and hopefully they are selective enough to recruit those to whom an oath means something, no matter to what it is given...

[JonoBN41]

As I sit here watching CNN, seeing folks blowing each other up, and contemplating all the millions of people who have been killed in the name of God, I have to laugh at anyone who worries that a kid smart enough not to buy into that crap may not be honorable enough to join a college fraternity.

Thanks for the comic relief.

(Jono shakes head, makes a cocktail, and sits back to watch the continuing carnage)

[Tom Earp]

Wish You Were Here and We would be enjoying the same Cocktail and shaking our heads!

[blkwebman1919]

Originally Posted by MysticCat81

I have a feeling that our Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters might disagree with the suggestion that the Roman Catholic Church was the universal church prior to the Reformation.

You're absolutely right, considering the schism that led to the establishment of the alternate papal seat at Constantinople.

[Liberal_South]

Originally Posted by RACooper

I think you have a very skewed perception of what honour is, if you use duels as a measure of it .

Would you, sir, defend your honor with your life? I would, in the gentlemenly manor by which those before us have. Most of the signers of the Declaration of Independence at one point or another participated in a duel, and you might even recall the story of Alexander Hamilton, Secretary of the Treasurey, and Aaron Burr, Vice-President of the United States engaging in a duel of honor. The defending of honor is not a concept I would except a Canadian to understand.

[33girl]

Quakers (who are Christian) also do not swear on the Bible or to God, if I recall. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.