Huh?

[CatStarESP4]

I read the article and was outraged about what happened. I am little baffled over the statement that a fraternity could die because the assets of the national would be wiped out. Why go after the entire national when it was one chapter involved? I read there was a designated driver at first. Was there some reason he relinquished control to the drunk driver? Was he forced to give up the driver's seat?
Every GLO, regardless of local, regional or national affiliation, should look out for one another. I am a big believer that an once of prevention worth a pound (maybe more) of cure. I agree that the sororities should do their part to help the fraternities with their alcohol policies. Something like this should never happen again!

[bruinaphi]

Originally posted by CatStarESP4
I am little baffled over the statement that a fraternity could die because the assets of the national would be wiped out. Why go after the entire national when it was one chapter involved?

The national organization has the deep pockets. If you are a PI lawyer and you have a client who is injured and has a lot of bills you go after the money. In reality, you name each of the chapter members (or the executive counsel), the chapter as an entity, maybe the HCB and the national org. A single lawsuit with a big plaintiff's verdict could wipe out most of our national organizations.

[Tom Earp]

This and some other Countrys have become so SUE Happy it is moronic!

There are no deep pockets in Greek Organizations, beleive me!

Example:

I was picking my teeth and the toot pick broke and imbeded in my gum! It need extraction!

The surgey went bad!

I sued the tooth pick maker, store that I bought it from, the Doctor who did the work and the Hospital where I was a patience!

I did not win the suit, but, I got a settlement out of court!

This has become our leagal system today!

Wake up and figure it out soon, The Hdqs dont have a lot of money, they are just like each Chapter and ourselves as individuals! Hand to mouth so to speak! Dah!

Corelate this to the Tobacco Industry, pays more in Taxes than anyothe industry, but tying to put us out of business. Thousands of people will be out of jobs and lose of taxes!

Ta Da!!!!

[justamom]

Tom, you explained that so beautifully! That is EXACTLY how it goes.

Small businesses are like natonals, and we ALL are extremely vulnerable to our legal system be it justified or not!

[kddani]

So I just did a quick scan of some cases involving hazing over the past three years (surprisingly found a couple involving orgs on my campus).

In most cases, they try to go after the national orgs under the theory of negligence. But of the 10 or so cases I scanned, none really got past the first part of the test. To prove negligence, you need to prove 5 things:
1) the person/org being sued had a duty to the person making the claim
2) that duty was breached
3) an injury occured
4) the breach was the actual cause
and 5) the breach was the proximate cause.

All the cases that I quickly skimmed held that the national org did not have a duty to the person suing. Pretty much sided with the national orgs in almost all cases, didn't see any that didn't. But I only gave a handful of cases a quick glance to see their holdings.

Given the opportunity, i'd LOVE to do more research on this and write a paper on the subject. Maybe if I ever get some free time.......

[Kevin]

Originally posted by kddani
So I just did a quick scan of some cases involving hazing over the past three years (surprisingly found a couple involving orgs on my campus).

In most cases, they try to go after the national orgs under the theory of negligence. But of the 10 or so cases I scanned, none really got past the first part of the test. To prove negligence, you need to prove 5 things:
1) the person/org being sued had a duty to the person making the claim
2) that duty was breached
3) an injury occured
4) the breach was the actual cause
and 5) the breach was the proximate cause.

All the cases that I quickly skimmed held that the national org did not have a duty to the person suing. Pretty much sided with the national orgs in almost all cases, didn't see any that didn't. But I only gave a handful of cases a quick glance to see their holdings.

Given the opportunity, i'd LOVE to do more research on this and write a paper on the subject. Maybe if I ever get some free time.......

That's comforting to know. Even if the jury gives a huge initial reward I'd be VERY surprised to see that hold up on appeal.

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by kddani
So I just did a quick scan of some cases involving hazing over the past three years (surprisingly found a couple involving orgs on my campus).

In most cases, they try to go after the national orgs under the theory of negligence. But of the 10 or so cases I scanned, none really got past the first part of the test. To prove negligence, you need to prove 5 things:
1) the person/org being sued had a duty to the person making the claim
2) that duty was breached
3) an injury occured
4) the breach was the actual cause
and 5) the breach was the proximate cause.

All the cases that I quickly skimmed held that the national org did not have a duty to the person suing. Pretty much sided with the national orgs in almost all cases, didn't see any that didn't. But I only gave a handful of cases a quick glance to see their holdings.

Given the opportunity, i'd LOVE to do more research on this and write a paper on the subject. Maybe if I ever get some free time.......

kddani, awesome work!!! thank you to you and all the other legal GC'ers who help us understand all the legal stuff! You all rock!

[DZHBrown]

The article says that the trial was expected to last the rest of the week. Does anyone know how it turned out?

[kddani]

Originally posted by DZHBrown
The article says that the trial was expected to last the rest of the week. Does anyone know how it turned out?

Someone local or maybe a Sig Ep would have to say. It's a low-level state court, so it's not something that would be published on Lexis Nexis or Westlaw (I just double checked). It'll get dragged through appeals, regardless of which side wins. I'm not sure if a State Circuit Court Judge would have the cajones to make such a big decision and try to establish a precedent.

My bet is that they'll find that the plaintiff didn't establish that Sig Ep nationally had a duty to the victim. I'm not sure what circuits have ruled on it and what states, but i'm sure the judge will consider how other lawsuits in similar situations have turned out (in favor of the national fraternity).

[LeslieAGD]

Originally posted by kddani
Given the opportunity, i'd LOVE to do more research on this and write a paper on the subject. Maybe if I ever get some free time.......

That would definitely be an interesting read!

[moe.ron]

"In addition to Sigma Phi, the Mississippi Beta Sigma Phi Epsilon Alumni Association is named in the lawsuit. The lawsuit seeks the corporate death penalty, the total assets of the national fraternity."


A quick question for all you lawyers, since most, if not all the houses are own by local alumni board which inc. itself. Can the lawsuit go after the local chapter houses also? Or are they going to go after properties owned only by the national, in which case it's only the HQ in Richmond.

[UCFPhiDelt]

This is something that everyone in the greek system should take seriously. I find myself usually disagreeing with DeltAlum but on this issue we agree. The days of old will be brought to an end by the courts before it is ended internally. I fully believe at some point we will see a national fraternity or sorority bankrupted. I am not sure if most of you know how much your orgiz. are worth. I don't mean its personal worth; I mean it's cold hard cash dollar worth. Some of the largest groups (about 10 greek orgiz. total) could "live through" a $10 million dollar verdict. The rest of the groups, to which many of you belong, would cease to exist. Many of you have posted that you're national orgiz. could keep the case tied up in the courts for years or that your alums will bail you out. I would not bet on either of those being true. You may get lucky, but even if your orgiz. stays a judgment for five years, do you think your group could come up with an extra $2 million a year to pay off these costs? Almost none of your orgiz.'s could come up with the cash.

I don't like the idea but it would make a strong point to all of us, if a judgment of this type occurs. Even a "small" $5 million dollar verdict would cut to the bone. The question to me is not if it will happen, but when. I just hope to god it's not Phi Delt.

[33girl]

Devil's advocate.

Sig Ep is one of the largest national fraternities, ergo, one of the richest fraternities. Do you think if it was one of the smaller groups, like KDR or Phi Mu Delta, that the lawyers would have bothered to take this stance?

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by 33girl
Devil's advocate.

Sig Ep is one of the largest national fraternities, ergo, one of the richest fraternities. Do you think if it was one of the smaller groups, like KDR or Phi Mu Delta, that the lawyers would have bothered to take this stance?

Why not? They have less money and legal assets to fight it out in court.

Note to UCFPhiDelt:

Delts and Phi Delts didn't get along too well when I was on campus, but I had the opportunity to hear one of your former national presidents (whatever the name of the office is called) a few years ago and was very impressed. At this point in time, your organization has taken some good and necessary steps toward it's survival. I know they haven't always been easy to swallow, but in the long run, hopefully they will work in your favor.

[33girl]

I was looking at it more like a mom & pop restaurant vs. McDonald's...you know the mom & pop doesn't have a lot to give you, so it's not worth exposing all YOUR flaws in court. With MickyD's, the potential payoff will be bigger, so it might be worth it for you to end up in not the best light. I say this because every single thing those 3 fellows (the two who were killed and especially the one who was driving) have ever done from birth on is going to get raked over the coals. Not fair, but true.