Panhellenic Expansion at Clemson Voted Down

[BrownEyedGirl]

....

[33girl]

Originally posted by BrownEyedGirl
Bringing in a sorority with a strong southern alumnae presence, name recognition or legacies, good national participation, and Panhellenic support

I think that is IT in a nutshell right there! Looking at who's already there I am guessing the top contenders would be Pi Phi or Phi Mu. I know that right now Phi Mu is recolonizing at Miami-Ohio, which is a BIG job.

Maybe people are gun-shy after AGD didn't do well and pulled out - they don't want to put all this energy into welcoming and acclimating a new sorority only to have it not work out.

[aopinthesky]

Just a few questions... The span between your smallest and largest sororities is great. Are you saying that the larger sororities support expansion because they believe they are too big and expansion will lower total thus allowing them to have fewer members? How much would quota be lowered by bringing one new sorority to campus? When Alpha Gam came to your campus, why did they only take 50 girls to start? What was chapter total then? If interest in a new group is low, what will make expansion different now? Also, how reasonable is it to expect a group with 65 members will be able to COB up to 130 in a semester?

[aopinthesky]

Thanks for your info, Browneyedgirl. It sounds like you have a lot of good statistics and that expansion has been well thought out by your existing groups. It is rare to find a campus where the big sororities want to be smaller! While it doesn't sound like you would have any significant change in quota, I suppose it is a start. I didn't see it if you said how the smaller groups feel about expansion. It would probably not be a positive thing for the smallest of your sororities and I can see a new group pushing them on out (which would defeat your purpose). I think someone suggested that you take some time to get those small groups up to chapter total before bringing a new group in. Realistically, it will be tough for them to COB to total (I figure if they could do that then they would have already). However, if you want the whole system to succeed (and it sounds like you do) that is the logical first step.
Good Luck!

[breathesgelatin]

Originally posted by BrownEyedGirl
[B]33girl, I know we all thought Phi Mu would be a big contender because they have very strong chapters at Lander, USC-S, and USC-A, all of which are less than two hours from Clemson. Pi Beta Phi left Clemson in the early nineties, and doesn't have any undergraduate chapters in SC, so it may be difficult to find alumnae around here or drum up a lot of interest from day one. Other 'contenders', based solely on opinions of committee members I had talked to, were Delta Zeta (chapters at USC and USC-S) and maybe AOPi, which is huge at UGA (less than two hours from CU as well).

Pi Phi actually had 2 chapter in South Carolina at one time--SC Alpha at USC and SC Beta at Clemson. I think the SC Alpha chapter went out a decent while ago, but their alumna seem to be really strong--a good record of giving, plus the current Pi Phi Grand President is an SC Alpha. Obviously being a (North) Carolina girl and a Pi Phi, I would love to have a South Carolina chapter again... But it's all good. oh, and I PM'ed you.

[Floridagirl]

I just wanted to say this is a really great, constructive conversation where actual sororities are being named and the campus is being named. I think some very good, productive ideas are bring expressed here. This is a tough issue.

[James]

I am getting the impression that the sororities do not COB in the off semester?

Even if they are not at Total? If hats true, why would that be?

And if thats not true, why would you think that the weaker chapters would suddenly jump to chapter average?

[DGMarie]

Originally posted by Floridagirl
I just wanted to say this is a really great, constructive conversation where actual sororities are being named and the campus is being named. I think some very good, productive ideas are bring expressed here. This is a tough issue.

Yes, I agree. I would be interested in hearing who is big and who is small and why that is. Would brining in another group help the weaker one? If it means lowering quota, I guess I'm missing how that will help the smaller one grow. Maybe I'm just confused?

[James]

You have a good point. I am not saying they shouldn't bring a new group on. You should bring a new group on once a year. assuming you have a fricking clue lol.

But. One more group will only lower quote by maybe five.

500 girls going through nRush for 10 sororities makes quota 50. Add an 11th sorority and you have quota at 45.

Right?

Originally posted by almostaDGonce
Yes, I agree. I would be interested in hearing who is big and who is small and why that is. Would brining in another group help the weaker one? If it means lowering quota, I guess I'm missing how that will help the smaller one grow. Maybe I'm just confused?

[James]

Also, groups that are much smaller than average generally suck ass.

Bear with me for a moment.

In order for a smaller group to truly justify itself in terms of being competitive, it would mean that they got just as many qualified applicants as the largest groups on campus. Every one of which would be willing to accept their bids.

And then they would deliberately only take in the best 10-25 [percent of that group.

If thats not true, then all the arguments they have about smaller being cozier are just them talking out their asses and trying to justify their lack of competitveness with the other groups.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by James
Also, groups that are much smaller than average generally suck ass.

Bear with me for a moment.

In order for a smaller group to truly justify itself in terms of being competitive, it would mean that they got just as many qualified applicants as the largest groups on campus. Every one of which would be willing to accept their bids.

And then they would deliberately only take in the best 10-25 [percent of that group.

If thats not true, then all the arguments they have about smaller being cozier are just them talking out their asses and trying to justify their lack of competitveness with the other groups.

This would be assuming that every house is searching for the same type of girl, or at least that there's an equal number of each of the different types of girls that each house wants. The problem is that different houses want different types of girls. At a campus where the majority of sororities and the majority of rushees are the "stereotypical" kind, the rich, pretty party girls, the few sororities who don't want that type of girl will be hard pressed to find rushees that fit their house (at least during formal rush). But at many campuses, the girls who would fit into the "non-stereotypical houses" don't ever think of rushing because the image they see is solely that of the stereotypical chapters. That's why the smaller sororities tend to suffer.

I don't know if this is another one of the NPC/IFC differences, a difference between men and women, or just something I've completely made up, but I've noticed that fraternities seem to be a lot more concerned with "getting the best and the brightest" to join their fraternity, while women are more interested in finding women who fit the profile of their house. I know this is true for my sorority, at least -- we could have a PNM who has a 4.0, was class president, head cheerleader, etc. etc. -- but if she doesn't fit in with the girls in the house, we wouldn't bid her.

There are a lot of reasons why a smaller group might be smaller: their girls aren't as pretty/popular as the bigger houses, they have messy internal problems, they might not have enough resources to compete with the other houses, they might not have as much sisterhood as the other chapters, they might have a very small pool of their sorority's "type" to draw from (the smallest sorority on my campus is one that is composed of primarily East coast Jewish girls, and in the middle of Wisconsin there's not a huge market for that), etc. But I can think of very few reasons why anybody should say that a smaller sorority isn't as worthy of being a sorority just because it's smaller. There is room in the Greek system for all types and sizes.

Again, it all ties into the IFC/NPC differences and the way fraternities treat their organizations more like businesses whereas the sororities tend to look more at the women involved.

Or maybe I just completely mis-read your post . . . it's late.

[Aphigal]

I noticed in USA Today that Clemson is ranked the #1 school for most people playing intramural sports. I was wondering if the sororities play intramurals too??

[33girl]

Originally posted by James
I am getting the impression that the sororities do not COB in the off semester?

Even if they are not at Total? If hats true, why would that be?

And if thats not true, why would you think that the weaker chapters would suddenly jump to chapter average?

James -

8 of the 10 are at total from formal rush in fall and so they can't COB.

Two need to get up to total - one is lower and one is practically there. The one who is practically there might not feel it worth the expense or hassle to do COB rush. It's very very different than up here where COB is pretty much a way of life at a lot of schools.

[sigmagrrl]

We also had a chapter there. I cannot remember when it closed, but the local alumnae would be ECSTATIC to have the chapter back.

[bruinaphi]

When is Panhellenic voting again?