Fratty North?

[PennState-Gamma]

I go to school up above the Mason-Dixon line here at Penn State and rushed fall my freshman year. i always assumed that all fraternities were 'fratty' like southern fraternities, and thats what i wanted to join; tradition, dress code, and everything that goes along with the fratty south.
but i guess that type of fraternity doesn't translate to the north as much. my house is similar, but still lacks (like our whole system at PSU), a lack of prestige, honor, and 'fraty-ness'.

So.

Any reasons why you think northern fraternities are less like southern fraternities?
and
How do you think northern fraternities, like mine, move (back) toward that?

[Elephant Walk]

You'll probably catch flack for this question, but here are reasons I think it's like that.

1. Tradition - South has always relied heavily on tradition. Alot of the times you have "well my daddy went here and was this fraternity, so I'll do the same." You see this heavily during rush for towns. "Well, I'm from Stuttgart, so I pretty much have to go Sigma Chi", etc.

2. Economic Circumstances - College is still a significant achievement for many throughout the south. The fraternity is just another symbol of that wealth. Disposable income and so forth. I dare say that it's seen more as a country club, where you drink and make business connections rather than party. Partying is what's done as well, but I myself, never see the fraternity as a party.

3. Military Tradition - Whereas many places throughout the country have been scared off by the hazing allegations and the rigorous army-style workouts, the fraternity has been since the '50's a place where you can go through a "country-club military."

4. Dress - Greeks don't need to ever wear their letters on jerseys or some crap. You know we're greek by what we where during our daily life. It's what we grew up wearing for the most part (some acquired for sure), but it automatically separates us from the GDI's. We don't flaunt our letters, it's not necessary. The presence is felt without them.

Perhaps some of these are wrong, but I don't know.

How to move it back to that is far more difficult.

I really don't know. It's hard to change a whole campus culture. Especially one with 50 some GLO's. Start with your own chapter. Enforce and encourage elitism. That's about all I can say.

[pledgemaster]

Exactly what elephant walk said,

Its how we've been raised. I've been brought up to take pride in the way I dress and the way I carry myself. From the time I was little, its been put into my head that I would go to a southern school and join a fraternity, and I never questioned that. I wanted to by just like my dad and my uncles, and all of the men I looked up to.

You can always tell the greeks from the none greeks, and its not even so much how they dress. In the south, everybody where columbia shorts, polos and rainbows. You can tell the greeks by their attitude. There definitly is a feeling of elitism, and rightfully so.


The best thing you can do is get on bid committee and stop bidding douchebags

[Jim_Hoegaarden]

I'd say your second point might be a little off base saying going to college is a big achievement for many in the South. Being in a fraternity is definitely a symbol of some level of wealth. It's not light on the pocket book, and it was designed that way. There are a few pockets above the Mason-Dixon line that are similar to those South of it, but in general you won't. The rest is of EW's post is pretty spot on though.

Moving towards it? First, you start with your chapter. Many Fraternities haze in the South for a reason. Not to be mean (and I know many of you are going to disagree, but I'm also guessing you don't haze, and would therefore wouldn't know why it's done, or anything like that, but to make sure that pledge wants to be there. That being said, don't haze for hazing-sake. Have dress-codes for pledges, and that also means you make sure they know how to dress like a gentleman (preferably Southern Gentleman), make them learn who the brothers and members are, so on and so forth. That should start helping the immediate situation, but make sure you continue with the traditions special to your chapter and/or fraternity. There is NOTHING wrong with tradition.

Now, I'm sure I'll get a ton of crap from those in northern fraternities for sounding very Southern biased and that's fine, but he basically asked how to make his fraternity and ultimately his greek system more like a Southern system.

[nittanyalum]

This is out of my lane as a female, but unless things have changed radically in State College, I'm just jumping in as a Penn State alum.

First, I appreciate the candor and respectful way the southern brothers responded to this question. These are probably the best explanations of how southern houses run that I've read on GC.

But second, to the OP, while I understand what you're saying, again, unless Penn State has radically changed, this isn't something to strive to "go back" to, because that's not the tradition of the greek houses there. Which does not mean the houses don't have tradition, they definitely do, but it's different from the southern way. I think if you introduced anyone to Penn State's greek system that wasn't from the deep south, they'd see Penn State as the "traditional greek system" -- it's all just frame of reference.

Out of 40,000 students at PSU, 11 or 12% are greek, so right there, it's a distinct population. People wear letters (except Beta, when I was there, because they said "you just know a Beta" -- well, I knew a guy for a whole year and when he finally wore a shirt with letters right toward the end of the year, I was completely surprised to find out he was a Beta, so whatever) because it's such a large greek system and (a) they're proud to be greek and (b) they want to be associated with their house. And it's flippin' cold, so hey, when it's 20 degrees and snowing, that big letter hoodie is a good idea.

Don't hold your house or our huge northern greek system in comparison to a place like Ole Miss or Bama, they're completely different. Kids in Philly and Pittsburgh and Ohio and New York and from all over the U.S. are not "raised to be greek" like they are in the south. And that's ok because that's just not the frame of reference up there.

Trying to build your house's reputation among the chapters on campus is an admirable and attainable goal, but you need to be realistic about what will fly in Happy Valley. If you guys all start to wear boat shoes, make your pledges wear shirt and tie to football games rather than the "white out" PSU attire the student section rocks out, stop wearing letters and act like you're a "country club", my guess is that it will explode in your face. Build on the strengths of your current brothers and recruit guys that bring additional strengths you need.

[PennState-Gamma]

I understand, and Penn state def. has merit in its greek system, i was just seeing how it differed and why. out of curiousity. and i wasn't implying that penn state greeks have no tradition, because we do and i am proud of them, but they just seem less "bought into" by members.
however its unfair for me to judge, i lived in VA with a father who was greek at ole miss. and a mother who was greek at william and mary.
so just from what my dad told me, i had different expectations about it.
thanks for all the answers!

[Elephant Walk]

You know, I'll be honest. I run into brothers from other schools alot who wonder the same thing and try to emulate the houses. It's flattering. I hope it's succeeding.

I guess this doesn't help because you yourself is from out of state, but I would suggest picking a very good high school and attempt to rush very hard out of that school. I don't know if that is very common elsewhere other than the south, but I would suggest this. It builds tradition over years. As I mentioned earlier, Stuttgart (a small town in the Delta of Arkansas) kids always go Sigma Chi. Often expected to, to some degree. The same goes with other kids from the Delta. Chi-O does a similar thing. It creates tradition and a knowledge of that fraternity long before those kids in high school ever get up to campus.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

I guess this doesn't help because you yourself is from out of state, but I would suggest picking a very good high school and attempt to rush very hard out of that school. I don't know if that is very common elsewhere other than the south, but I would suggest this. It builds tradition over years. As I mentioned earlier, Stuttgart (a small town in the Delta of Arkansas) kids always go Sigma Chi. Often expected to, to some degree. The same goes with other kids from the Delta. Chi-O does a similar thing. It creates tradition and a knowledge of that fraternity long before those kids in high school ever get up to campus.

I think this probably actually does happen to a point - as in, all the kids from [name high school here] that go to Penn State might end up at a certain GLO just because they see a person they know at rush. The thing is, if your high school is big enough to make a dent as far as a fraternity's numbers, it's doubtful that everyone from there will go Greek. Our high schools range from graduating classes of 30 to 500. Yeah, my sorority pledged everyone from Curwensville High for a few years - but that added up to only like 10 people because that's all that came to my school!!

Honestly - I think what you're talking about happens more up here with athletic teams than fraternities.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I think this probably actually does happen to a point - as in, all the kids from [name high school here] that go to Penn State might end up at a certain GLO just because they see a person they know at rush. The thing is, if your high school is big enough to make a dent as far as a fraternity's numbers, it's doubtful that everyone from there will go Greek. Our high schools range from graduating classes of 30 to 500. Yeah, my sorority pledged everyone from Curwensville High for a few years - but that added up to only like 10 people because that's all that came to my school!!

Perhaps it's more significant here?

I went to a public high school and graduated with over 500. 1/4th went Greek, 1/4th never went to College.

[33girl]

I think there are just plain more colleges here too. That has something to do with it. The pool of students is more spread out.

[PANTHERTEKE]

The whole "kids from [Insert High School] usually pledge XYZ" happens in a few places, just not in the SEC.

My school is far from "Southern," but there are 2 big all-boy private schools and 2 big all-girl private schools (well one recently became co-ed but is still 90% girls) where the guys from one school usually end up in Pike and the guys from the other pledge a few other chapters (we have a lot of guys from the other all-boys school).

With the all-girls schools, they either end up in Alpha Xi Delta or Phi Sigma Sigma (especially the legacies).

Of course, there are exceptions to this general rule-my little brother now is from the school where most guys pledge Pike. But it is still almost expected that people from certain high schools pledge certain chapters.

And my school is far from Fratty- our Greek system is less than 30 years old. So it goes to show that this happens outside the SEC too.

[Benzgirl]

Sort of a piggy-back onto what NittanyAlum said, many Greeks from the North lie is very liberal areas. We were not raised in as much tradition as we were raised to think outside the box and stir things up a little.

Guys from my high school often pledge houses specifically where they didn't know anyone. They felt that college was often a time to re-create yourself, meet knew people and experience a different culture. Back in time (when I was in school), it was not unusual to see a Christian pledge a traditionally Jewish house. This held true for both sororities and fraternities. We accepted African Americans in nearly every chapter -- this is still taboo in some areas of the country.

Many Big 10 (ok with PSU it's 11) do have strong traditions. It's just a different type of tradition. And, I'm sure if you look real hard, you can find Frattiness. The difference is that Fratty will probably be heckled.

[Munchkin03]

My experience is only limited to the Ivy League but, as far as the North goes, the Greek system (again, with the exception of those crazy co-eds) was pretty fratty. There definitely weren't gelheads at any of the chapters at my undergrad, and the members were the guys who would dress up for football games and there were a lot of legacies to fraternities like Sigma Chi. There is a LOT of "going back," as Homecoming is almost exclusively Greeks and not that many independents come back to campus.

I don't know if that's a byproduct of the general exclusivity of Ivy League schools, but there you have it. We've got some fratties up here, too.

[Low C Sharp]

To build on what Munchkin03 said, the elite, tradition-heavy, well-dressed, country club thing is alive and well at places like Princeton, Dartmouth, and Harvard, although that element is a small segment of the student population. Cottage Club at Princeton, Porcellian at Harvard, etc. would likely impress the ultra-fratty Southern chapters we're talking about.
________
Ryushi009

[Canadian]

My fraternity has a lot of military men and career academicians. We also have our fair share of salesmen, factory workers, Walmart greeters and casual workers. We've got a wide mix of people from all races and regions and ages.

Where we get fratty is having friends outside the fraternity. I have maybe one good guy friend outside the fraternity, and everybody is anxious for me to Rush him. It's like joining literally buys the friendship of 40 active brothers and you will remain friends for life. That's not true in its entirity, but critics claim that the 300 dollars we pay in membership dues is like a taxation and we discourage making friends from outside the fraternity, unless it's part of a Rush effort.

I suppose that's true to a certain extent. But it's easily explainable. If you Rush in a class of 20, you spend a dozen hours in pledge ed, as well as participating in events, mixers and socials and are expected to provide a serious level of devotion. So instead of spending Thursday night with friends from your dorm floor down at the student pub, you're spending them with other pledges learning the Docet (our pledge manual). And although we don't haze or expect anything from a pledge I wouldn't do myself in front of my mother, they're expected to show up for fundraisers, campus cleanups, bottle drives, workbees, etc. So their Saturday mornings are pretty much taken, as are Friday nights.

Then once they become brothers (we have a mandatory limit of 60 days on the pledge period), they've got 20 close friends they've been through pledging with, as well as a whack of cool upperclassmen to associate with. And these are people they have plenty in common with. So instead of spending time with randoms from the dorms or one of seven roommates in an apartment, they start spending all their free time with brothers. So really, we're not buying their friendship, we're paying to run an organization that promotes well-being.

If that's fratty, we're guilty.

Thomas