Athletes and accolades: The Spin off thread

DaemonSeid · #1 05-23-2008, 02:17 PM

Kobe, Michael Jordan, Mike Tyson, Michael Vick

Some of sports' biggest names who have made and impact in the sports they made and sometimes criticized for some for their off court decisions.

Do you think that what happens in a player's personal life affect what kind of awards they get during the time that they are playing?

Example:

Kobe - there was speculation that any awards that Kobe gets from here on in is still tied around the fact that he got off scot freee on the rape case....he has not had the endorsements that he had prior, nor did he win an MVP award until this year altho some believe he should have won one years ago.

Michael Vick: support for him has been sharply divided due to the dog abuse case. if he still continues to play football after he gets out of jail how will it affect the business of the NFL? Will he still have the recoginition and even if he plays better, will all be forgiven?

Kevlar281 · #2 05-23-2008, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Michael Vick: support for him has been sharply divided due to the dog abuse case. if he still continues to play football after he gets out of jail how will it affect the business of the NFL? Will he still have the recoginition and even if he plays better, will all be forgiven?

I'll be amazed if he comes back as a quarterback. He may play again one day but I doubt it will be under center.

DaemonSeid · #3 05-23-2008, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

I'll be amazed if he comes back as a quarterback. He may play again one day but I doubt it will be under center.

Ditto to that....but....why?

because his poor decision making off the field will keep him from being a good field general?

if he comes back and doesn't play the position he excelled in I think will be closely scrutinized.

Kevlar281 · #4 05-23-2008, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Ditto to that....but....why?

because his poor decision making off the field will keep him from being a good field general?

Because I think that most teams market their quarterbacks as the face/icon of their organization and these days a quarterback's value is not just measuered with their on the field abilities but their off the field behavior.

/edit: Basically I don't think any team would take the risk of making him their front man again.

KSigkid · #5 05-23-2008, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Kobe, Michael Jordan, Mike Tyson, Michael Vick

Some of sports' biggest names who have made and impact in the sports they made and sometimes criticized for some for their off court decisions.

Do you think that what happens in a player's personal life affect what kind of awards they get during the time that they are playing?

Example:

Kobe - there was speculation that any awards that Kobe gets from here on in is still tied around the fact that he got off scot freee on the rape case....he has not had the endorsements that he had prior, nor did he win an MVP award until this year altho some believe he should have won one years ago.

Michael Vick: support for him has been sharply divided due to the dog abuse case. if he still continues to play football after he gets out of jail how will it affect the business of the NFL? Will he still have the recoginition and even if he plays better, will all be forgiven?

I really don't think conduct off the field should have a bearing on on-field awards (unless there's some "character" aspect to the awards).

I think the Kobe thing had less to do with his off-field behavior, and more to do with the fact that there were just guys with better seasons or more hype surrounding them each year. I honestly don't think he should have won the award this either (I think either Paul or Lebron should have gotten it), but that's another story.

Vick is going to have a long road back, in that the quarterback is historically the face of the NFL team's franchise. In a way, he was the face of the NFL for a few years; it's how he got the big endorsement deals when he came in as a rookie, and how he got the huge deal from the Falcons. That history, plus the importance of the QB position, is going to make it harder for him than for other athletes (Leonard Little, Pacman Jones, etc.). Plus, Vick wasn't all that great a quarterback when he left (besides the running), so it's questionable what sort of impact the time away will have on his abilities.

Jones hasn't been reinstated yet, so who knows what his situation will be when the season starts. You'd think the Cowboys would have gotten some guarantee from the NFL before making the trade (especially considering the closeness with the NFL front offices).

Tom Earp · #6 05-23-2008, 05:07 PM

Ah, big bucks and self important has a short road to drive down!

Self importance and money and drugs is tuff for some of the people who come into the lime light!

So what about our so called idols of sports?

They suck!

Prove me wrong!

AKA_Monet · #7 05-23-2008, 06:34 PM

When AKA_Monet was younger, thinner and cuter, she used to date some big name players in the NFL and she could've date some in the NBA, but she chose not do so... That was a very lllllooooonnnngggg time ago... LOL

DaemonSeid · #8 05-23-2008, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

When AKA_Monet was younger, thinner and cuter, she used to date some big name players in the NFL and she could've date some in the NBA, but she chose not do so... That was a very lllllooooonnnngggg time ago... LOL

Im snitching

AKA_Monet · #9 05-23-2008, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

oooooooooooooo...I'm tellin'!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Im snitching

Y'all there ain't nothing to tell...

I was youthful and naive and got caught up into the hype of it... Met some interesting people, though...

DaemonSeid · #10 05-23-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSigkid

Plus, Vick wasn't all that great a quarterback when he left (besides the running), so it's questionable what sort of impact the time away will have on his abilities.

this small point I have to disagree on for the simple fact that as talented as Vick was (getting the Falcs to the playoffs and championship games, they never worked to give him the weapons that say, Peyton Manning or Tom Brady has especially at WR.

Pearless Price?

Marty Booker?

if Vick ever had a monster WR like Owens or Moss (2 others with questionable off field antics) just hink of what the Falcons could do.

Them picking a squeaky clean looking Matt Ryan is changing all of that for them now....let's see what happens.

KSigkid · #11 05-23-2008, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

this small point I have to disagree on for the simple fact that as talented as Vick was (getting the Falcs to the playoffs and championship games, they never worked to give him the weapons that say, Peyton Manning or Tom Brady has especially at WR.

Pearless Price?

Marty Booker?

if Vick ever had a monster WR like Owens or Moss (2 others with questionable off field antics) just hink of what the Falcons could do.

Them picking a squeaky clean looking Matt Ryan is changing all of that for them now....let's see what happens.

Not to turn this into a Vick discussion, but...

Vick's highest completion percentage was 56.4 % with the rest of the time being around 50%. In that time he had Alge Crumpler (who was a pretty good receiver), and Brian Finneran. Plus, Vick's completion numbers and other passing stats weren't that great coming out of college. He was the most gifted running quarterback ever, and a great talent, and that's where nearly all his value was. It's a shame the Falcons never bit a receiving group around him, although they were pretty committed to having him run the ball 20-25 times a game (plus, Warrick Dunn was pretty good for a couple of those years).

Previous to Randy Moss, who did Brady have as a top flight receiver? Troy Brown? David Givens? Deion Branch? None of those guys is better Finneran or Crumpler.

Also, the vast difference between Manning and Vick isn't as easily explained by pointing to Manning's receivers.

Could it have made a difference for Vick to have a stud receiver? Absolutely, his numbers would have been better. However, I don't think it would have made THAT much of a difference.

Incidentally, I don't think Ryan's going to be all that great in the NFL. His college numbers don't lead one to believe he'll be a great NFL QB (low completion percentages, high interception rates). Ironically enough, people make the same arguments (no receivers at BC) for Ryan's struggles.

(Also, in the interest of full disclosure, I'm by no means a Pats or Colts fan. Giants all the way.)

DaemonSeid · #12 05-23-2008, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSigkid

Not to turn this into a Vick discussion, but...

Vick's highest completion percentage was 56.4 % with the rest of the time being around 50%. In that time he had Alge Crumpler (who was a pretty good receiver), and Brian Finneran. Plus, Vick's completion numbers and other passing stats weren't that great coming out of college. He was the most gifted running quarterback ever, and a great talent, and that's where nearly all his value was. It's a shame the Falcons never bit a receiving group around him, although they were pretty committed to having him run the ball 20-25 times a game (plus, Warrick Dunn was pretty good for a couple of those years).

Previous to Randy Moss, who did Brady have as a top flight receiver? Troy Brown? David Givens? Deion Branch? None of those guys is better Finneran or Crumpler.

Also, the vast difference between Manning and Vick isn't as easily explained by pointing to Manning's receivers.

Could it have made a difference for Vick to have a stud receiver? Absolutely, his numbers would have been better. However, I don't think it would have made THAT much of a difference.

Incidentally, I don't think Ryan's going to be all that great in the NFL. His college numbers don't lead one to believe he'll be a great NFL QB (low completion percentages, high interception rates). Ironically enough, people make the same arguments (no receivers at BC) for Ryan's struggles.

(Also, in the interest of full disclosure, I'm by no means a Pats or Colts fan. Giants all the way.)

your completion numbers would be low if your rushing numbers are high...correct?

KSigkid · #13 05-23-2008, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

your completion numbers would be low if your rushing numbers are high...correct?

Not necessarily - you could have a higher completion percentage because you're throwing less passes. It's not like he's the only QB who has had those issues with low completion percentages; Eli Manning and Vince Young are a couple of others that spring to mind.

Also, if you look at Randall Cunningham's stats, his passing numbers were better in his prime than Vick's. He was running the ball a lot, but he still had at least a couple of good season throwing the ball for the Eagles. (I'm not sure how much he was running the ball for the Vikings when he had his big year).

When I'm saying that Mike Vick wasn't a good passer, I'm not saying he wasn't a heck of a football player, he was. It's like Derek Jeter (my favorite baseball player); he's a terrible defensive shortstop, but a great baseball player. It's just there are aspects of their games that are subpar.

TexasWSP · #14 05-23-2008, 05:31 PM

Personally, I don't think Kobe has ever deserved the award......nor do I think he deserved it this year. Chris Paul should have been given it on a silver Platter. The fact that he didn't win the award his first 12 years in the league, to me, had more to do with the fact that he was a ball hogging, shitty teammate....not that he raped a woman (but I'm sure that did play a part).

Michael Vick.......wasn't a good QB to begin with. If he makes it back, which he won't, he certainly won't play QB. Too long away from the game, teams going in different directions, the Falcons signing Matt Ryan to a long term deal, etc. The league has moved on from Michael Vick.

DaemonSeid · #15 05-23-2008, 05:35 PM

just an FYI ...you all don't have to concentrate on just those players I listed!

altho we can debate Vick's merits too!! hehehe