Iraq - Better or Worse?

RACooper · #1 09-21-2006, 02:43 PM

Well it's been awhile since the Iraq debate has flared-up... or at leasst flared up with any actual thought towards the subject.

So I'm asking a question on some people's minds:
"Is Iraq better off or worse after the removal of Saddam?"

I'm going to draw fire for this by saying No. Why you may ask? Well, because of the sectarian violence, the civilian deaths, rampant torture, destroyed infrastructure, religious intolerance, and general lawlessness... while, yes, Saddam tortured and killed alot of people, he couldn't hold a candle to what has happened since his removal...

KSig RC · #2 09-21-2006, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RACooper

I'm going to draw fire for this by saying No. Why you may ask? Well, because of the sectarian violence, the civilian deaths, rampant torture, destroyed infrastructure, religious intolerance, and general lawlessness...

As you noted yourself, all of these things (minus infrastructure damage) were present before - nobody should have expected these things to end, especially with a power vacuum situation (which has become increasingly problematic, I'll agree).

I don't really think we know enough to compare before and after, and it would seem especially near-sighted to compare while in the process of 'after' (aka rebuilding - wait until the roof and siding are finished before judging the house, amirite?).

_Opi_ · #3 09-21-2006, 03:41 PM

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

shinerbock · #4 09-21-2006, 04:31 PM

People seem to forget the costs of change. This is a pretty common thing in modern society, very few are willing to sacrifice for the prospect of betterment. Now do we know that Iraq will eventually be a free and stable country? Of course not, but neither did the founders of this country...

DeltAlum · #5 09-21-2006, 09:19 PM

My opinion is that it is worse.

Will it eventually be better? Maybe.

AGDee · #6 09-21-2006, 10:49 PM

I think that for many Iraqis, the infrastructure damage and civil unrest are more difficult to deal with than Sadaam was. They knew the rules before, under Sadaam. Now, there are no clear rules, but you can still get killed for not following them. The lack of electricity, the increased costs of gas, the chaos and constant violence... I can't imagine living like that. This is based on blogs like Baghdad Burning http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

I've been reading this woman's blog for over a year (maybe two now) and it's so disturbing. I'm a little concerned that she hasn't blogged since August 5th. It's one of her longest (if not THE longest) stretches she has gone without a blog entry. I feel like I know her now and worry that something has happened to her.

I consider that the whole thing could be propaganda from "the other side", but, even if it is, I believe the truth is probably somewhere in between what we hear and what I read there. I hope and pray that it will eventually be better.

_Opi_ · #7 09-22-2006, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinerbock

very few are willing to sacrifice for the prospect of betterment. Now do we know that Iraq will eventually be a free and stable country? Of course not, but neither did the founders of this country...

Dude, how can you sit there behind a screen and talk about sacrifice when you dont know the meaning of that word. Thousands have died so far. At what cost? Because we, on this side of the world, "thought" there were terrorist connections to Saddam. It is now apparant that is not the case. So we justify the death of these people by saying, well at least now they can have a better country. Or they had a very bad leader. And at what cost? THEIR LIVES. We talk about freedom, but that's so f*ing hypocritical. These dead people will never have a taste of freedom. Imagine how we (and I'm talking about all of us on this side of the world) would do react to people who tried to justify 911 or any other major atrocity by saying this is the cost of "freedom" or "sacrifice" for the greater good.

I just don't think we get it.

Rudey · #8 09-22-2006, 12:18 AM

I just don't think I care for how Iraq does anymore. America should pull out and let them kill each other if they want instead of donating American lives like dollar bills.

-Rudey

KSigkid · #9 09-22-2006, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Opi_

Dude, how can you sit there behind a screen and talk about sacrifice when you dont know the meaning of that word.

I'm hoping you're directing your comment at one person, because there are many people on this board who have sacrificed; whether that means joining the armed forces, going overseas, having friends or family members go overseas, or losing a friend or family member.

I personally agree with RC that it's early in the process to be judging better or worse (not at all to minimize the fact that so many people have lost their lives in this).