Afghanistan

[RACooper]

Sigh… I know I haven’t posted in a while, but I’ve been on vacation and visiting friends in some of the more remote areas of Ontario…

But here I am in Petawawa when news of more casualties come in – another 4 Canadians were killed in combat today, including WO Richard Nolan (I knew him as a MCpl.). At times the fact that the Canadian military is such a small and tight-night community can be a hindrance, in that almost ever loss is felt so…

The problem is that now these latest deaths have provoked a renewed call from the NDP for the withdrawal of Canadian troops from Afghanistan, and the negotiation with the Taliban for a peaceful Afghanistan. This is complete jackass political thinking, that demonstrates a disconnect with the realities of the world. At one time I whole-heartedly agreed with the NDP’s call for a debate on the role of Canadian forces and efforts in Afghanistan – to clearly define our role as it were… not this bizarre call by Jack Layton that is beyond my understanding.

Most of the soldiers I know are extremely proud of the work they have done in Afghanistan, particularly the work of the PRTs (Provincial Reconstruction Teams) in trying to repair the damage the NATO bombardment, Taliban rulership, and Soviet invasion did. Others felt very strongly that they had/have to be there, not necessarily solely to combat to the Taliban, but to mainly to “reign in overly gung-ho Americans” or to provide a voice or reason in dealing with the Afghanis. Personally I feel the advisory, reconstruction, combat, and “reigning in” roles are all vital roles that the Canadians must play in Afghanistan (and on the world-stage for that matter).

Anyways back to the main thrust of the post – let us remember those brave soles that have consistently volunteered to place themselves in harms way, and to even die in the cause of peace and freedom. The cost now stands at 32, including Canada’s first female combat soldier killed in action, a very senior diplomat, and 3 of my friends…

[_Opi_]

Originally Posted by RACooper

Anyways back to the main thrust of the post – let us remember those brave soles that have consistently volunteered to place themselves in harms way, and to even die in the cause of peace and freedom. The cost now stands at 32, including Canada’s first female combat soldier killed in action, a very senior diplomat, and 3 of my friends…

Hey, sorry about your friends, RACooper.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by RACooper

...but to mainly to “reign in overly gung-ho Americans” (

Rob, I'm very sorry about your personal loss, but that comment is uncalled for in this situation.

You know that I'm an admirer of your country and it's defense forces, but under the present circumstances, I'd say that the US Military has a lot more on the line and more exposure in that part of the world than Canada does and your comments aren't appreciated in the same post with the loss of brave Canadians.

We've lost some brave people there, too, and I'm personally offended by the characterization of anyone of our troops as "overly gung-ho."

Think what you want personally, but your gratutious shot at our country cheapens your comments on your country's loss.

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

Rob, I'm very sorry about your personal loss, but that comment is uncalled for in this situation.

You know that I'm an admirer of your country and it's defense forces, but under the present circumstances, I'd say that the US Military has a lot more on the line and more exposure in that part of the world than Canada does and your comments aren't appreciated in the same post with the loss of brave Canadians.

We've lost some brave people there, too, and I'm personally offended by the characterization of anyone of our troops as "overly gung-ho."

Think what you want personally, but your gratutious shot at our country cheapens your comments on your country's loss.

I'm sorry DA but I didn't mean it as a shot, but simply a statement/belief that is common in the military... a repeating of a common statement one here's when shooting the sh*t in the Mess or bar.

Soldiers being soldiers its common to complain about or bemoan the tactics of allies, just as I'm sure many US troops lament Canada's "soft-touch" when it comes to military operations in Afghanistan... such as the warning the populace of a region a week ahead of time, that they are going to use full military force against the Taliban in a particular province (like in the current operation).

It's almost a tradition in the Canadian military to lament or worry about a "shoot first ask questions later" that is seen as the primary approach of the US military - while not really a right view, nor is it untruthful given the doctrinal reliance on overwhelming firepower.

*** and this just in another Canadian has been killed by a friendly fire incident involving a US A-10 strafing NATO forces ***

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by RACooper

It's almost a tradition in the Canadian military to lament or worry about a "shoot first ask questions later" that is seen as the primary approach of the US military - while not really a right view, nor is it untruthful given the doctrinal reliance on overwhelming firepower.

The US military follows strict rules of engagement, which does not include "shoot first, ask questions later".

[KillarneyRose]

Rob, I am so sorry to hear about your friends. It's not something one ever gets used to

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

The US military follows strict rules of engagement, which does not include "shoot first, ask questions later".

While this is true, there is obviously a difference in attitude or standards when it comes to the setting of the ROE or it's enforcement - afterall when was the last time you heard of the British, Australian, or Canadian military being the instigator of "friendly fire" or for accidently shooting up a wedding party?

There was a wonderful study done on the mental indoctination and preperation for combat done by the US military that I read for me Force & Statecraft course ~ basically covering the training practices that reduce a battlefield to only "red and blue" forces, excluding allies, neutrals, or non-combatants; and how this is a problem when it comes to reality - if I can find the study again I'll link it.

[Rudey]

Originally Posted by ariesrising

I have my opinions, you have yours, and that's all.

And yours are unfounded and stupid much like someone that stereotypes black people. If we're stereotyping, then wherever your from has a lot of morons.

-Rudey

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by ariesrising

I have my opinions, you have yours, and that's all.

And some of us happen to think your stated opinons are horribly unfair generalizations, and that's all.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ariesrising

I have my opinions, you have yours, and that's all.

I'm not going to conclude anything from this except that you're now running away from having to defend your positions. You have admitted your opinion is largely based on unreasonable sources. How can you live with these "opinions" of yours which are based on sources which you admit are biased?

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by ariesrising

I would think that US soldiers raping a woman after killing her family would be thought of as "overly gung-ho". But that's just me.

Okay that's completely uncalled for - the actions of a extreme criminal minority should not be a reflection on the US military.

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by ariesrising

Yet they are in the US military, and were serving in the country as the US military, so it does reflect on them, does it not?

It should reflect no more on the whole of the US forces any more than this did/does on the Canadian Armed Forces:


Do you think this is reflective of the members of the Canadian Armed Forces? I sure as hell don't think so. Just as the CAF don't make it habit to torture and beat to death teenagers, the US military doesn't make it habit to rape & murder. It is the sick and the criminal wearing the uniform that commit these horrible acts, not the uniform or what it represents.

Personally I think it's too bad that those soldiers in Iraq weren't under Canadian or British command, because then they'd be facing the firing squad: murder, rape, drunkness on guard duty in a combat zone, and abandoning your post in a combat zone; are all still punishable by death under the QR&R (the only other two are treason and collaborating with the enemy). Further I think it's also too bad that these "men" didn't take Matchee's route when their crimes came to light...

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by ariesrising

Yet they are in the US military, and were serving in the country as the US military, so it does reflect on them, does it not?

No. It doesn't. A single incident by one or two people doesn't reflect on the entire US Military.

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by ariesrising

I would think that US soldiers raping a woman after killing her family would be thought of as "overly gung-ho". But that's just me.

Have you ever been in a war or a battle in you home country?

Outrages comment.

[Tom Earp]

Brother Cooper, what many forget is that there are many Countrys and many Men and Women who are in foreign Countrys fighting for Freedom.

I /We have Brothers and friends over there. They are there for one reason only, to try and protect Us from having this going on In our own Countrys.

Ask the French and Germans who were trying to work with them. So, what do these morons care? They kill period!!!

It is time some think of them and what they are doing to really try to make it better for the people who are getting killed as civilians who are just there trying to live.