The wonderful world of UofT academia...

[RACooper]

In defense of academic freedom
An open letter to the U of T community:

Daniel Pipes has been invited to speak on "Radical Islam and the War on Terror" at the University of Toronto by a newly formed local chapter of his Middle East Forum -an organization that "promotes American interests in the Middle East" and monitors criticism of US and Israeli policies in the media and academia. We feel obliged to inform the university community and the residents of this city that Pipes is someone who has used freedom of speech in order to restrict the academic freedom of those whom he attacks from his position outside the academic world

http://www.thevarsity.ca/news/2005/0...m-904186.shtml

I did enjoy his "un-patriotic professors watch-list", or more particularlly that he was swamped with requests to be added to the list, to be in solidaritry with those already on it.

[Rudey]

So basically if someone points out bias and lies, and holds a different viewpoint than you, you get upset?

-Rudey

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Rudey
So basically if someone points out bias and lies, and holds a different viewpoint than you, you get upset?

-Rudey

Huh?

I think I more upset at the fact that this racist tool is given a platform to spread his distorted views up here...

The article itself is an open letter to the UofT community signed and supported by dozens of professors - all in favour of academic debate - not the furtherance of hate, prejudice, or fear-mongering. Perhaps you should actually read it before commenting...

[Rudey]

Originally posted by RACooper
Huh?

I think I more upset at the fact that this racist tool is given a platform to spread his distorted views up here...

The article itself is an open letter to the UofT community signed and supported by dozens of professors - all in favour of academic debate - not the furtherance of hate, prejudice, or fear-mongering. Perhaps you should actually read it before commenting...

Stop throwing around labels like "racist".

-Rudey

[RACooper]

Well I'm sorry... but they guy has made some extremely questionable statements with regards to 'race'...

His comments directed against 'blacks' and other 'brown skins' being a danger or "suspect" because of cultural, religious, and physical differences doesn't exactly help... it's comments along those lines that causes some people to think he might be racist.... and I'm not going to get into obvious bias he has about Muslims

[Rudey]

Originally posted by RACooper
Well I'm sorry... but they guy has made some extremely questionable statements with regards to 'race'...

His comments directed against 'blacks' and other 'brown skins' being a danger or "suspect" because of cultural, religious, and physical differences doesn't exactly help... it's comments along those lines that causes some people to think he might be racist.... and I'm not going to get into obvious bias he has about Muslims

What is it that he said exactly that you can say that? The same thing goes for what he has to say about Islam/Muslims.

All I'm saying is if people have something to say about what someone said, they should bring up those points in an appropriate setting and show how they're wrong.

-Rudey

[RACooper]

Well he does have some questionable quotes within the article at the start of the thread... other than that I'll try and see if I can find a transcript of last night's lecture (hopefully from an unbiased source - if someone actually recorded it).

[Rudey]

Originally posted by RACooper
Well he does have some questionable quotes within the article at the start of the thread... other than that I'll try and see if I can find a transcript of last night's lecture (hopefully from an unbiased source - if someone actually recorded it).

Referring to people as brown-skinned is probably less insulting than calling them black and I don't see how either is racist in any form.

-Rudey

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Rudey
Referring to people as brown-skinned is probably less insulting than calling them black and I don't see how either is racist in any form.

-Rudey

He did make roughly the same comments last night... but when asked why he had singled out people with darker coulored skin as the primary threat from the Muslim world he basically answered it was because people of darker skin are more prone to violence - Christian, Muslim, or Jew... and then of course came the yelling and heckling - when the commotion had died down (and some people removed - including some retired professors) he continued on with his discussion, but never touched on the subject of 'race' again, and concentrated on discussing militant Islam from that point on (mainly from the viewpoint of the US or Israel). His arguement basically boiled down to the Machevialian "It's better to be feared than loved" approach to combating militant Islam and terrorism.

I haven't found a transcript of the night yet (on the campus news, Muslim, or Jewish student groups), but maybe Thrusday (it when the main campus paper is out)... better yet would be a video recording - I' sure I saw the Ontario public television guys recording in the back.

I'm sure some coverage will happen, given the controvesrial topic "Radical Islam and the War on Terror"... but it might take some time.

[keji_2]

Originally posted by RACooper
He did make roughly the same comments last night... but when asked why he had singled out people with darker coulored skin as the primary threat from the Muslim world he basically answered it was because people of darker skin are more prone to violence - Christian, Muslim, or Jew...

He is right. Melonin makes you violent. Thats why most of the people in the IRA are Black Irish. Tim Mcvey was really a Black Scot and Milosovic was a Black Croat or was he a Black Serb.

[Rudey]

Well if you get a transcript or quote, I can respond.

-Rudey

Originally posted by RACooper
He did make roughly the same comments last night... but when asked why he had singled out people with darker coulored skin as the primary threat from the Muslim world he basically answered it was because people of darker skin are more prone to violence - Christian, Muslim, or Jew... and then of course came the yelling and heckling - when the commotion had died down (and some people removed - including some retired professors) he continued on with his discussion, but never touched on the subject of 'race' again, and concentrated on discussing militant Islam from that point on (mainly from the viewpoint of the US or Israel). His arguement basically boiled down to the Machevialian "It's better to be feared than loved" approach to combating militant Islam and terrorism.

I haven't found a transcript of the night yet (on the campus news, Muslim, or Jewish student groups), but maybe Thrusday (it when the main campus paper is out)... better yet would be a video recording - I' sure I saw the Ontario public television guys recording in the back.

I'm sure some coverage will happen, given the controvesrial topic "Radical Islam and the War on Terror"... but it might take some time.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by keji_2
He is right. Melonin make you violent. Thats why most of the people in the IRA are Black Irish. Tim Mcvey was really a Black Scot and Milosovic was a Black Croat or was he a Black Serb.

Who is right? Wait for the transcript.

-Rudey

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Rudey
Well if you get a transcript or quote, I can respond.

-Rudey

And that's what I'm waiting for... was his still a professor at the University of Chicago when you were an undergrad?

Well just finished reading through all the national papers that covered the lecture... and they most gloss over it - I guess they expected more protests or disruptions, and with all the other news it didn't rate that high. But the only disruption came at during the first 10 minutes, and everything after that was... decidedly "lecturish" (ie. got very sleepy in the theatre chairs).

In reality I'd have said there was more pushing and shoving by different student leaders trying to get their sound bites in with the media (including my favourites - the newly renamed Middle East Forum at UofT - formerly The Neoconservative Middle East Forum at U of T. - no suprise they're supporters of Pipes) I'm disappointed that Pipes bailed on the reception afterwards, I would have enjoyed sounding him out on some issues one-on-one in a less formal enviroment...

[Rudey]

No not when I was there.

He is very knowledgable in his field and just because he holds conservative views regarding terrorism and foreign policy towards the middle east, some don't like him.

Throwing around terms like racist and whatnot truly diminishes what those labels mean.

-Rudey

Originally posted by RACooper
And that's what I'm waiting for... was his still a professor at the University of Chicago when you were an undergrad?

Well just finished reading through all the national papers that covered the lecture... and they most gloss over it - I guess they expected more protests or disruptions, and with all the other news it didn't rate that high. But the only disruption came at during the first 10 minutes, and everything after that was... decidedly "lecturish" (ie. got very sleepy in the theatre chairs).

In reality I'd have said there was more pushing and shoving by different student leaders trying to get their sound bites in with the media (including my favourites - the newly renamed Middle East Forum at UofT - formerly The Neoconservative Middle East Forum at U of T. - no suprise they're supporters of Pipes) I'm disappointed that Pipes bailed on the reception afterwards, I would have enjoyed sounding him out on some issues one-on-one in a less formal enviroment...