Hoosier will never "become" black

[hoosier]

I found this private mail very interesting, although the writer is complaining to me about something I didn't write or post.

I would respond that I truly don't understand black people, even tho my daily work puts me in contact with many.

I don't understand why many blacks don't try to follow the path of other groups who have entered the mainstream, such as the Irish imigrants, other European imigrants, Cubans who arrived here penniless, etc. These groups have tried to be a "American" as possible, and have worked and studied hard, even when faced with great resistance and challenges. Many blacks seem to feel that being as "different" as possible is the way to go. Why, I ask, do so many blacks want to have extremes in hair styles, clothes, dance, and music?

I don't understand why many blacks, and their so-called leaders like Jesse Jackson, Sharpton, etc. think the way to progress is via more government handouts in housing, jobs, food, and education.

I don't understand why 90+% of blacks vote for Democrats. The Democrats controlled the federal govt. for 40 years, and the blacks got little for their support. Exactly why would the Democrats make a special effort for a group which automaticly gives Democrats their votes?

To put something positive in this, I admire the asians who have come to America with nothing, and have established ethnic districts with strong businesses, banks, restaurants appealing to everybody, food stores, etc. I admire the people from India and Pakistan, who have taken over the 7-11 convenience stores, and the Patel family which owns a zillion motels.

These successful groups have done it through hard work and education, I think. Often if you go to a restaurant owned by asian imigrants, you will see the school kids working or setting at a rear table studying. These imigrants are so successful academically that some top schools have quotas to keep them from over-running the campus. These same schools often have quotas (with lower standards) trying to attract black kids.

Locally, the school valedictorian was an asian girl who came to the US about five years ago, speaking no English.

It seems like many blacks succeed in athletics, because they work hard to improve their natural abilities, but I know that some black students, who are working hard to improve their academics, are dissed for "acting white."

The above are my thoughts on a controversial subject.

I think the anonymous writer below also has some good points. Keep in mind, though, that I didn't post what she quotes.

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UA Thread (Possible Multicultural)
Hoosier,

You know you can say whatever you want about why you think Black women are not in NPC sororities, but until you "become" Black you will never know. You stated in your post,

"Jewish women, Asian women, Indian women, & Muslim women have all gone through rush at Alabama and have gotten bids to great houses. There have been several women who have black fathers or mothers who have gotten bids at UA. I think it's silly that there aren't any African-American women in NPC sororities."

FYI if you haven't noticed the latest trend in American society, Black women are at the bottom of the totem pole. For some reason it is politically correct to be any race BUT Black and female. If you pick up ANY African American magazine or even watch BET (Black Entertainment) you would see this. Why is it that White females will socialize with all the above races and girls of mixed heritage before they will socialize with blacks? This is true, it is discrimination and people are sick of this sh*t and people like you are just beating a dead horse.

Until you walk a mile in a Black women's shoes do not make generalizations. I'm sure just about every black NPHC member on here and Black MCGLO female on here can tell you about a run in with some over zealous NPCer.

My school is in the deepsouth and we had the same problem that UA had, altough we have had one token Black girl in Zeta Tau Alpha. It is to the point that NPC and IFC DEMANDED that their events not be printed on the same paper as the NPHC, there was no support of NPHC parties etc. after many NPHC and independents supported IFC events. Hmmmm....Why is that Hoosier? We live in a perfect, equal, and color blind society right.... I feel like the more Whites try to act like discrimination does not exist the more it thrives.....

You are probably thinking I am flaming you, but you really need to know this from "The black point of view" because I seriously doubt anyone else would break it down for you.

Your welcome in advance,
A PROUD Black girl from SC

[MysticCat]

Ummmm. Seems like a little perspective is called for Hoosier.

Like you, Hoosier, I am not Black. I recognize that, because of the accident of birth that I am a white male of European descent, I will never really understand what it feels like to be Black. I can try, sincerely try, to have some understanding of it, but I'll never really have the experience of being Black in this society.

That said, take a look at all of the immigrant groups you mentioned: Irish and other Europeans, Cubans, Aisans, and the like. With the exception of some Europeans who may have come as indentured servants in the 17th and 18th centuries, and of some Chinese and other Oriental immigrants, all of the groups (and individuals) that you mentioned came here because they or their parents wanted to. It was a choice made in order to seek a better life. Amazing what that kind of attitude will do to one's desire to assimilate. (Although I think the popularity of Latin music and the like in current pop culture might contradict your assertion that all immigrant groups eschew their own cultures to be "as American as possible.")

Moreover, while many of these groups faced discrimination, and even laws intended to "keep them down," such discrimination was nothing compared to the discrimination against Blacks that was woven into the warp and woof of this country from before the Revolution.

Blacks, unlike these other immigrant groups, came here involuntarily. They came here as property and were sold as property for over two centuries. Even after slavery was abolished, law and culture worked together to keep blacks second class citizens. Remember literacy tests for voting?

Under these circumstances, is it really that surprising that some Blacks might be a little reluctant to imitate the more-WASPish ways of some of us Americans?

As for this comment:

Many blacks seem to feel that being as "different" as possible is the way to go. Why, I ask, do so many blacks want to have extremes in hair styles, clothes, dance, and music?

I don't understand why many blacks, and their so-called leaders like Jesse Jackson, Sharpton, etc. think the way to progress is via more government handouts in housing, jobs, food, and education.

These are what we call stereotypes, Hoosier. Practice, and you'll be able to recognize them pretty quickly.

BTW, seems to me you have a faulty premise here. Exactly how does one become "as 'American' as possible"? What exactly constitutes an American hair-style, or American clothes, dance or music? From your slam at the Democratic Party, I'm wondering if "American" means white, up-tight Republican. If that's the case, please save me from being an American!

[AchtungBaby80]

As a Welsh-American, I will never be able to completely empathize with black Americans either, but I think Hoosier made a few good points. Blacks are not the only ones in the history of this country to be discriminated against. Yes, maybe their experience was the worst, but that is the past. I don't want to hear about it anymore, because that has no relevance to what's going on today. (I know others disagree.) Many blacks were made to come here, but not all other immigrants came here because they wanted to. Many Irish people, for example, came here because they were starving and had nowhere to go in their own country, not because they just up and decided to move someplace more exciting. Not ALL black people in America came here against their will. America is a mix of cultures, but I see a lot of black people keeping themselves separate and then grumbling about discrimination. Where's the good in that?

Note: I am not racist, contrary to how I may sound. I believe that everyone should be treated equally, but to be honest, I don't see much discrimination around here (and I'm from the South) and I don't think the situation is as bad as everyone makes it out to be. There are loads of other groups/ethnicities that are at a disadvantage, as Hoosier pointed out--why don't we hear from them?

[hoosier]

"These are what we call stereotypes, Hoosier."

No, these are what we call facts or perceptions.

[AlphaFrog]

I'm very proud to say that I stood at a table in our student union for an activity fair. We had many people pass by but when it came down to it...the list of people at the end of the day was VERY diverse. In fact, on that list, white was a minority...I am white and I would very much LOVE for all of those women to get bid and accept. I love seeing all kinds of different faces in ASA. I also have friends who are African American, and they all speak clear, proper English and sound very educated. It's not "black" people that I have a problem accepting...it's those who refuse to educate themselves, including white people. Just think about it... would you want your lawyer no matter what color s/he was to walk into the courtroom and say: "Hey, Y'all Jury people over there", or "Y'all ain't gonna count THAT as evidence is y'all?" and I know some people of all colors who I could picture doing that...

[33girl]

hoosier,

you're talking in the third person, dude.

get help.

[Opie25]

are you kiding me with this original post, or did I wake up this morning in 1950?

[Rudey]

People racism is just a figment of your imagination. Don't you all understand that???

-Rudey
--By the way, you're all stupid idiots.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by AchtungBaby80
Blacks are not the only ones in the history of this country to be discriminated against. Yes, maybe their experience was the worst, but that is the past. I don't want to hear about it anymore, because that has no relevance to what's going on today. (I know others disagree.)

I do have to disagree, ActungBaby80. It does have relevance. The reality is that centuries of subjegation and hard-core discrimination (such as making it illegal to teach a Black person to read) contributed to (notice I did not say "is solely responsible for") the socio-ecomomic situation in which many Blacks find themselves today. That, in turn, can contribute (again, not necessarily does contribute) to all manner of things, including educational achievement.

Originally posted by AchtungBaby80
Many blacks were made to come here, but not all other immigrants came here because they wanted to. Many Irish people, for example, came here because they were starving and had nowhere to go in their own country, not because they just up and decided to move someplace more exciting.

"Wanted to" is a tricky criteria. Yes, using the example of the Irish, many were starving (and discriminated against because of their religion) in Ireland, and that was what prompted them to come here. And no doubt, they knew they would face challenges and discrimination here. Yet, they still "wanted to" come here in the sense that they believed that, as bad or challenging as it might be here, it was worse at home. In that sense, it was a choice, or was at least motivated by the desire for a better life.

And Hoosier. Yes, they are perceptions, and they may have some basis in fact. They are also stereotypes.