Important: please read!

SAEalumnus · #1 03-01-2002, 05:13 PM

Click here for an important story we all need to know about. Seems some of us have a LOT of house cleaning to do.

Fraternities and sororities are NOT intrinsically bad (contrary to popular public opinion), but when we allow this sort of thing to occur, we're only giving the public more ammunition to use against us.

Be sure to read the whole article - I know I was shocked at some of the things I read.

LexiKD · #2 03-01-2002, 05:26 PM

SAE: I agree with you, we can only blame ourselves as in all bad PR issues but:

This happens all the time, no matter if you are affiliated with a group or not but it is more marketable if there is a Greek name attached. Just b/c there is a national organization to tie to the story it is of national interest. If they reported everyday about these things peolpe would have a different Point of View.

I know the article says Greek % is higher, and that may be true, but any independent with a large friend base propabaly has the same chances as a Greek.

When I was in school, how I miss the days, my social habits did not change. That is just me, but it is the truth.

I wish there was no story to print, it would be easier!

dzrose93 · #3 03-01-2002, 05:36 PM

I will agree with SAEactive in that Greeks sometimes bring bad press on themselves. However, I would also like to point out that drinking statistics are often used incorrectly to make an anti-Greek point stronger.

For example, take this portion of the article:

"But among Greek students, the numbers are higher: 86% of fraternity members and 80% of sorority members living in chapter houses are likely to engage in binge drinking."

There is a HUGE difference between the number of fraternity and sorority members TOTAL, and the number of fraternity and sorority members living in chapter houses.

Take my campus for example: My chapter had 55 active members, but only 10 lived in the chapter house -- usually the older sisters who were upperclassmen and, therefore, of legal drinking age.

If 8 sisters in the house drank, then, under the statistics used in the above statement, many people would assume that 80% of our sorority members drank frequently. In reality, we might have only had 20 sisters who drank regularly, which would be 36% of our chapter -- not 80% like the article implies. There's a big difference between 80% and 36%, but you have to read that article very closely to realize that the statistics aren't exactly what they seem to be at first glance.

(Sorry for the tangent, guys. I work in marketing research and deal with statistics daily, so I pick up on these things alot.)

Kevin · #4 03-01-2002, 05:39 PM

I don't like it when they cite statistics but not how they came up with those statistics, etc... For all we know, they went to a real "problem" campus and extrapolated the data there to the entire Greek Community. The fact that those statistics exist ANYWHERE defies anything that I have in fact experienced.

And of course he didn't define things like "binge drinking" either... It was most definitely a one-sided argument -- one that I don't think I'd put too much stock in.

LHT,
Kevin

KarenC725 · #5 03-01-2002, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by amycat412
I joined my house as a sophomore... and one comment i'll make is that I drank WAY more before XO and my non-Greek friends drank way more before they went Greek as well.

Its not just us, its a problem amongst all college students--only your average non-Greek student doesn't have letters across their chest, around their neck, on their car, etc making them so easily identifiable.

Have to agree. I too drank more as an "independent" than Greek. If someone is going to drink (and do it excessively) they will do it whether they are greek or not.

SAEalumnus · #6 03-01-2002, 05:44 PM

...all good points, BUT - that still doesn't mean that these things don't happen and when they do, they make us all look bad! I know that most of these statistics are b.s., but the fact remains that this is how the public perceives our institutions. If we allow ourselves to be complacent about this, then it doesn't really matter how accurate or inaccurate the stats are.

dzrose93 · #7 03-01-2002, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SAEactive
...all good points, BUT - that still doesn't mean that these things don't happen and when they do, they make us all look bad! I know that most of these statistics are b.s., but the fact remains that this is how the public perceives our institutions. If we allow ourselves to be complacent about this, then it doesn't really matter how accurate or inaccurate the stats are.

You're right about that, SAEactive.

It just ticks me off to see people twisting stats around to prove their points, which would have been much weaker without the figures, know what I mean? Of course, the article would have been even weaker if those 5 incidents hadn't occured at all!

btw -- don't know if I've mentioned this to you before, but my Dad is an SAE.

SAEalumnus · #8 03-01-2002, 05:54 PM

Good stuff dzrose! Phi Alpha to your dad!

True true about the other stuff - just stirring up the poop, ya know? Sometimes these things need to be discussed.

Optimist Prime · #9 03-01-2002, 06:03 PM

It bothers me too that the stats are used like that. But don't worry. Our national leaders need to stop blaming the media. That will just give media people who have no opionon about greek life a bad opinion. Just remember there is NO such thing as bad press. People will forget where they heard the names of those fraternities, but not that they heard the names of those fraternities.

TrojanGirl · #10 03-01-2002, 06:08 PM

The stats are also skewed because more and more GLO's don't offer housing. There is not a GLO on my campus that does.

TG

#11 03-01-2002, 08:47 PM

Fact 1: The average college student binge drinks. Greek or non greek it doesnt matter.

Fact 2: GHB is also a substance that is made naturally by your body. Unless, its in a high dose, just because you have traces of GHB found in your system does not mean, someone spiked the alchi with the date rape drug.

Fact 3: If you find out where these people got their stats from, such as the name of the organization (i.e Christian Coalition, etc), you wil generally see the hidden agenda that lies.

I agree with SAEactive completey, that we as greeks tend to bring these things on ourselves, and need to do better. HOWEVER, I also think, ok not think...I know, that the media likes to twist things around before all the facts are out. For most of those incidences, there was never any info saying that so and so was seen drinking at the fraternity before the unfortunate death happened. It just so happens that they happened to be in XYZ fraternity. For all anyone knows one kid could have died from something that got put in his drink at the bar. What were the blood point levels of these kids? I mean if youve had on drink, it can be found in your system. Couldnt it just be coincidence, and that unfortuantely with high winds and speeding, a deadly accident occured.Dont get me wrong, I feel very much for the families and am sad for them. But in all seriousness in this world (and this just isnt about drinking), individuals need to start taking responsiblity for their own actions . We cannot continue to let people blame our whole system for what individuals who were unfortunately reckless do. In all honestly until I get all the facts and Im not saying that the fraternities didnt play a part because I dont know, the only one situation that I think they can blame drinking and being in XYZ for would be the one where they beat the male.
Going to UM and dealing with the Courtney Cantor issue, I can say that her death is still unexplained and no one knows whether drinking played a part. GHB was found in her system, but not high doses. Doses that even a doctor said her body could have naturally made itself. Her bloodpoint wasnt even close to the legal limit. The poor girl fell out of her 6th story window and we might never know why. Truthfully, many people at UM who were there think it was possibly a suicide or foul play. The way the windows are set up and how her loft were, just just cant accidently fall out the window. It impossible. May she rest in peace.
In the end I hope these were all coincidences, but knowing that stuff like this can happen, we as greeks need to do something to defend ourselves from the media and defend each other from letting these deaths and incidences occur.

33girl · #12 03-02-2002, 12:22 AM

I'm really glad that dzrose93 and UMgirl brought up the point of not believing the hype of statistics. Especially that one about living in chapter houses and greater alcohol consumption. They know that the average non-Greek out there has no idea that "chapter houses" sometimes only house 5-6 (out of 50) members!! And they're certainly not going to explain that and lessen the impact.

Regarding Hank Media Whore Nuwer's claim of 56 "Greek related" deaths since 2000, I'd like to know exactly what they are. One of the Sigma Chis from my school was killed driving drunk (he was at home) on his 21st birthday. It was during summer - so there was no official chapter activity going on - and a few brothers were with him. Now if you tell that story and say "Joe was with his friends and drove home drunk" well, whose fault is it? Joe's fault, and to a lesser degree, his friends' fault for not taking his keys. But as soon as you mention that he was a fraternity member and the friends were his brothers, it's a Greek related death, according to Mr. Nuwer's standards. I realize he is trying to do good, but he seems to think this is a problem that can be eliminated by just addressing a very small faction of the US population. Plus I think he has done serious damage to his credibility by using faulty stats to prove a point.

Irresponsible drinking is not a Greek problem. It's not even a college problem. It's a societal problem. If this was a Greek problem, there'd be none of it going on at colleges with no Greek system. It's pointed up the most in college since people are underage, but I've seen plenty of 21+ year olds who have never set foot near a college get shit-faced and do harm to themselves and others on a pretty regular basis. If we educated our children as they grew (and I mean from little up, not DARE in 7th or 8th grade) about how to use and appreciate alcohol, rather than making it a huge devil "forbidden fruit" I doubt we would have the problems we have now. There are always going to be people who become alcoholics - it's a genetic predisposition, that they will never know they have until they take a drink - but as far as preventing alcohol problems, prohibition and demonization don't cut it.

I agree that it would be beneficial to the Greek system if we could completely prevent any risk from alcohol. But how in the world could we do that, other than tell members that they are not permitted to drink at all when they join? I mean, what are we going to do, give urine tests at rush? Talk about numbers rising like a lead balloon.

KappaStargirl · #13 03-02-2002, 03:30 AM

33girl, can I give you a great big kiss? I know this is off topic, but I have ALWAYS thought that Americans should take a more European approach towards alcohol: Have wine with meals, on special occasions, etc. DON'T make it a huge "Alcohol is a horrible drug that will kill you" thing. I think that seeing alcohol as a part of everyday life will cut down on a lot of the drinking that is done, whether consciously or not, in rebellion once people leave for college.

aephi alum · #14 03-02-2002, 10:33 AM

There are three types of lies: Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Did y'all see that "study" that came out a few days ago, that stated that 25% of all alcoholic beverages were consumed by underage drinkers? Somebody refuting it said that would mean that underage drinkers would have to drink an average of 120 drinks per month. They'd never be sober!!

Turns out the group doing the study deliberately oversampled people ages 12-20 so that they could get statistically valid results regarding *underage* drinking, but when they ran the figures for the *total* population, they (conveniently) forgot to adjust for the oversampling.

And as we all know, the media loves painting greeks as a bunch of drunken louts.

dzrose makes an excellent point that generally, only upperclassmen live in chapter houses, so there's a higher percentage of people of legal drinking age there.

If there's an alcohol related incident and there's any indication whatsoever that the greek system might be involved, you bet you'll hear about it. You'll hear about how "Joe Smith, an XYZ pledge, was found unconscious in ABC fraternity house after having had 10 shots of vodka." But you never hear "Joe Smith, resident of Blahblahblah House, was found unconscious at a Blahblahblah dorm party after 10 shots of vodka." Funny, that.

And I agree with 33girl... if kids grew up with the attitude that alcohol is a normal part of life, no big deal, rather than this forbidden drug that mom and dad use and won't let them have any of... they're less likely to try to get it illegally and go off and get shit-faced. That's how I was raised and how I will raise my children... a (small) glass of wine with weekend dinners, a glass of champagne on New Year's, etc.

VSUPhiMu · #15 03-02-2002, 11:34 AM

I keep waiting for a journalist to do a story on how many non-Greeks die per year. Greeks are not the only people who drink!! I can't understand why the media doesn't get it that a lot of kids in college drink way more than they should. But as Greeks, we are always the focus of these articles.