My Opinion on Alpha Phi Omega

[Charmedgal]

Hey guys,

I am going through my pledge process, as of right now, and my class and I will be full brothers after this weekend.

After all my test, and other personal studies, about Alpha Phi Omega, I am happy to be a part of this Fraternity.

Here is one thing that crosses my mind, and I do not agree with it. Alpha Phi Omega is not considered Greek? Now, other colleges may consider their APO brothers Greek, but my college does not. Maybe it's a half and half thing... idk...

In my personal opinion, Alpha Phi Omega should be considered fully Greek. I am thinking, perhaps, the purpose of our Fraternity is to stay away from the limelight of the typical stereotype of Greek Life. I think if all APO chapters did consider themselves Greek, we could give a better name to it.

Sure, we are not run underneath a Greek Panhellenic Council, but I do not think that should be the solid purpose of why a Frat should be considered Greek.

We wear letters, we rush, we do charity work, we represent campus, we hold banquets, sectionals, nationals, we make friends, and we are listed as a Greek organization on some websites.

As APO brothers, what are your opinions on this?

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Charmedgal

Hey guys,

I am going through my pledge process, as of right now, and my class and I will be full brothers after this weekend.

After all my test, and other personal studies, about Alpha Phi Omega, I am happy to be a part of this Fraternity.

Here is one thing that crosses my mind, and I do not agree with it. Alpha Phi Omega is not considered Greek? Now, other colleges may consider their APO brothers Greek, but my college does not. Maybe it's a half and half thing... idk...

In my personal opinion, Alpha Phi Omega should be considered fully Greek. I am thinking, perhaps, the purpose of our Fraternity is to stay away from the limelight of the typical stereotype of Greek Life. I think if all APO chapters did consider themselves Greek, we could give a better name to it.

Sure, we are not run underneath a Greek Panhellenic Council, but I do not think that should be the solid purpose of why a Frat should be considered Greek.

We wear letters, we rush, we do charity work, we represent campus, we hold banquets, sectionals, nationals, we make friends, and we are listed as a Greek organization on some websites.

As APO brothers, what are your opinions on this?

Congratulations in Advance!

The question of "How Greek" is Alpha Phi Omega goes back to the founding of the Fraternity. With 13 of our 14 founders being members of Fraternities (8 from Sigma Alpha Epsilon and 5 from Krescents (which within a couple of years had become a chapter of Kappa Delta Rho)), our founders knew the Greek Fraternity System very well. (Lafayette was all-male in 1925).

Among the official definitions of Alpha Phi Omega at the beginning was "National Honorary Scouting Fraternity", and yet, even from the beginning we had pledge classes unlike a traditional Honorary group. Baird's Manual of American College Fraternities has more or less since the beginning counted APO as falling into a rather special grouping of Greek Letter Organizations (Service Fraternities and Sororities, a subgrouping of Recognition Societies).

Alpha Phi Omega does have some characteristics that it shares with Social Fraternities and Sororities, and some that it doesn't, *but* the simple truth is that there is *no one* who gets to choose for others "who is greek and who isn't". The first Greek Letter Organization, Phi Beta Kappa from which all concept of using Greek Letters to represent a student group isn't considered Greek by many, but that doesn't mean that it isn't...

The School (SUNY-Fredonia) may quite reasonably set up various councils (IFC, NPC, NPHC, Hispanic(?), other), but that doesn't specifically mean that they've made a decision on who is greek and who isn't.

On a national level, Alpha Phi Omega is a member of the Professional Fraternities Association, but unlike most of them, we don't have a field of study that we specialize in and most schools don't have an equivalent local council to the PFA.

My personal opinion is that Alpha Phi Omega doesn't fit on most councils made up of social fraternities and our National bylaws say that if we are the only non-social on the council then we need the National Board's approval. In my opinion that should be given rarely...

In my personal opinion, the best position for Alpha Phi Omega relative to the social greeks is as a neutral organizer and arbiter. SUNY-Fredonia as a "Greek Week" competition, can Alpha Phi Omega provide judging?

Randy

[Charmedgal]

I totally understand what you are saying. Your information was very interesting. As for the competition, I do not think we are associated with it. It's more of the socials who participate in the Greek Week. I am still learning about my Chapter's plans during the year. I think we have some special events for the spring semester.

[33girl]

Here's the thing. I am a member of Alpha Phi Omega and also a member of an NPC sorority. If APO was permitted to participate in Greek Week, what do I do? Where do I go? Not only that, many Greek Weeks have physical events that are fraternity vs fraternity and sorority vs sorority. Which side does APO fall on? Sure, it's a fraternity, but the fact of the matter is, many chapters have a majority of women.

When an APO chapter starts doing things like:
-being a participant (rather than a referee) in Greek Week
-having mixers with either a fraternity or sorority (depending on the gender makeup of the chapter)
-getting a house with letters on it
-joining either the campus IFC or Panhel (if not under duress of an administration that's too stupid to understand what APO is)

Then that to me is like that chapter is putting up an invisible sign saying "no IFC/Panhel/NPHC/NALFO Greeks allowed." Any chapter that does that is directly going against the founders (who as naraht pointed out, were mostly IFC Greeks).

If "Greek" means having a deeper bond than just being in a club and having to do more than just sign up to be a member...then yes, of course we are Greek. If "Greek" means doing those things I listed above...then NO, we are not Greek, and should not strive to be so. If you want to do those things above, join an IFC, NPC, NALFO or NPHC group.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

If "Greek" means having a deeper bond than just being in a club and having to do more than just sign up to be a member...then yes, of course we are Greek.

At some schools.

Originally Posted by 33girl

Also there are chapters out there who THEMSELVES loudly proclaim "We may have Greek letters, but we're not Greek!" What they are trying to say is, "We aren't bad stereotypical Greeks!"

I know you are speaking generally but I want to clarify that some APO chapters at some schools literally mean they aren't Greek. At some schools APO puts themselves in the same category as other organizations with Greek letters that allow dual membership such as honorary societies and academic sororities/fraternities.

/end lane swerve for topic that has been discussed on GC over and over

[33girl]

Oh, feel free to swerve. The whole "Is APO Greek" is kind of along the same lines as...

[naraht]

While it is a question that comes up repeatedly, I definitely don't think it is unreasonable to ask.

Some of us have been dealing with the issue for 20 years and some of us haven't, but asking the question doesn't indicate unreasonableness because they certainly have their right to give their opinion. As long as someone understands the facts such as FRH's membership in a Social Fraternity and the facts like we are banned from maintaining houses and admit those in Social Fraternities, I think we are fine...

In regards to the picture, if we can get to the point where "Is APO Greek" becomes a central question in the impeachment of a President, I think we've gotten somewhere...

Randy

[Charmedgal]

33girl, I don't think I fully understand what you are saying. Are you saying that you need to participate in a Greek Week, a single sex- group, getting a house with letters on it, and be on Panhellenic Council in order to be a True greek?

What I think you are saying is, as to your comment of "If APO was permitted to participate in Greek Week, what do I do? Where do I go?", are you saying that putting APO in the greek category would put a dent in what is said to be officially Greek? Not trying to disapprove your own opinion, I am trying to get a better understanding.

Anyways, what I am trying to say is, I know that APO is different from socials. Of course! And I think probably Greek Week competitions are for socials.

But I think with our hard work/efforts, and some of our traditions that basically reflect on what Greek Life is/ does, I think that the title is suitable for APO. That's just the point I am trying to make.

[naraht]

Charmedgal,

I think that what she is saying is if Alpha Phi Omega participates in Greek Week as a *competitor* then does she participate on the Alpha Phi Omega team or on the Kappa Kappa Gamma (just to pick an NPC sorority) team.

Limiting a competition to only those groups which by their own expectations are mutually exclusive isn't necessarily a knock on Alpha Phi Omega.

I also hadn't considered the "We are a fraternity, but how do we compete against the fraternities if we are mostly women in a chapter" issue.

Schools will use the term greek week for competitions among social greeks, that's just an *is*. However, anyone's opinion as to whether we are "greek" is just that, an opinion.

Randy

[Charmedgal]

Okay, thank you for clearing that up.

[naraht]

No Problem. While every chapter is different many are in similiar situations and discussing things like this helps everyone...

[33girl]

Also there are chapters out there who THEMSELVES loudly proclaim "We may have Greek letters, but we're not Greek!" What they are trying to say is, "We aren't bad stereotypical Greeks!" The fact is though, a lot of the chapters that say things like this are the WORST when it comes to the kind of cliquishness and chapter drama that is one of the bad Greek stereotypes.

[Explicit]

Some chapters DO participate in Greek week. William Paterson does. I think it depends on what chapter you're in - the atmosphere of the school, it's policies, etc. They're also on a Council - United Cultural Greek Council, which was set up by the university. You can always look for different ways of becoming more involved.

[modorney]

> ... we are banned from maintaining houses ...

Is this really enforced? Does this mean an APO chapter can't own a building? Some APO's rent buildings and act like other GLO's.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by modorney

> ... we are banned from maintaining houses ...

Is this really enforced? Does this mean an APO chapter can't own a building? Some APO's rent buildings and act like other GLO's.

From our national bylaws: Article IX, SECTION 15. HOUSING POLICY. As a Service Fraternity, Alpha Phi Omega does not operate nor maintain a fraternity house as lodging quarters for Members nor for any other persons. A Chapter may maintain rooms for meetings at the discretion of its Members.

I have personally never heard of a collegiate chapter which violated this rule.

I HAVE heard of an alumni association which outright owns its own building for the purposes of meetings.