Restrictions on wearing letters

[AnotherKD]

Hi all,

I was speaking with my younger sister this past weekend and she brought up a situation that kind of puzzled me. Most, if not all, sororities and fraternities tend to have rules (spoken or unspoken) about not wearing your letters while doing certain things. Some say that letters shouldn't be worn out to a bar, while others forbid smoking while wearing letters. There are all sorts of rules, different for each group.

However, she told me about this situation: she is in a sorority in which two of the sisters will sometimes wear their letters in one way or another to political rallies and/or handing out literature on the street. Basically, they will wear shirts with the sorority's name on it from an event, or they will carry a bag with their letters on it, etc. Most of the members in the sorority agree with the causes that the two wearing letters support, and so they don't see any problem with it. There are no formal rules regarding this. However, my sister is one girl that feels differently and would rather her sorority's name not be affiliated with politics and causes that she doesn't really believe in. She would rather the letters not be involved at all.

She is getting a bit of resistance from the rest of the chapter, who agree with the two letter-wearers. What do you guys think? I'm not exactly sure what to tell her.

Thanks!!

[tld221]

Originally Posted by AnotherKD

Hi all,

I was speaking with my younger sister this past weekend and she brought up a situation that kind of puzzled me. Most, if not all, sororities and fraternities tend to have rules (spoken or unspoken) about not wearing your letters while doing certain things. Some say that letters shouldn't be worn out to a bar, while others forbid smoking while wearing letters. There are all sorts of rules, different for each group.

However, she told me about this situation: she is in a sorority in which two of the sisters will sometimes wear their letters in one way or another to political rallies and/or handing out literature on the street. Basically, they will wear shirts with the sorority's name on it from an event, or they will carry a bag with their letters on it, etc. Most of the members in the sorority agree with the causes that the two wearing letters support, and so they don't see any problem with it. There are no formal rules regarding this. However, my sister is one girl that feels differently and would rather her sorority's name not be affiliated with politics and causes that she doesn't really believe in. She would rather the letters not be involved at all.

She is getting a bit of resistance from the rest of the chapter, who agree with the two letter-wearers. What do you guys think? I'm not exactly sure what to tell her.

Thanks!!

I remember this coming up a lot around the 2008 election, a lot of people on FB having to specify that their letters and greek affiliation had no bearing on their political beliefs.

I think this has been discussed before on GC - while i think its great to show that, as a member of the greek community, you are politically engaged (and going to forums and voting could be an example of that) but its the how. Wearing a discreet pin, taking notes with a lettered notepad or pen, or even a tote is one thing.

However, if you're in a huge block-letter tee (or a line jacket, or something of that vein) holding a sign at a rally or protest, its a little more visible and vocal. Even without opening your mouth you're representing your organization, whether positive or negative, in a way you weren't necessarily given permission.

This is very similar to many companies' (and universities even) stance on wearing branded apparel at such events. Americorps has rules around this (speaking from experience) as well, since I'm representing a governmental entity on work hours.

[DrPhil]

I see nothing wrong with wearing your letters or symbols to a "Race for the Cure" but I don't see the point in wearing them to voice support or do service for a politician. But, I hate politics and politicians so keep in mind how that is an additional context for my stance.

One thing that I absolutely hated were the "XYZ for Obama" shirts. The shirts annoyed me on so many levels and some organizations made public statements against anything that created the appearance that "XYZ supports a candidate." Wear a shirt that's in the colors of your GLO if you want to. Don't put your GLO's letters, symbols, or any identifying markers on the shirt.

As for the other stuff organizations frown upon their members doing in letters, it does differ for every organization. Moreover, members need to know the difference between personal opinion, chapter traditions, and what their national body actually mandates/protocol and traditions. For instance, some chapters don't wear lettered jackets wrapped around their waists. That's cool, just don't don't try to control what members from other chapters do, even if they are visiting your campus.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Moreover, members need to know the difference between personal opinion, chapter traditions, and what their national body actually mandates/protocol and traditions. For instance, some chapters don't wear lettered jackets wrapped around their waists. That's cool, just don't don't try to control what members from other chapters do, even if they are visiting your campus.

Double triple quadruple freakin' AMEN. (You should have seen my alma mater during the "grunge" era - the jackets around the waists thing was out of control. I thought it was lame, not out of letter disrespect but because it reminded me of doing that with my jacket when I was 10. )

As far as the political question...sometimes that jacket with the letters on is the only weather-appropriate thing you have at college. That's one thing. But you don't need to also wear the letter sweatshirt, the colors, the bag with it, or say when handing out fliers "I'm a member of ASA and we just think Lyndon LaRouche is yummy!"

You also need to look at it in a purely practical fashion and realize that you may be driving away rushees who don't agree with your political ideals. It can also make those in the chapter who don't agree (and who aren't as gutsy as the OP's sister - good for her by the way) fearful of speaking up. This is why I'm also not exactly high on the concept of prayer groups or bible studies sponsored by a particular chapter.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Double triple quadruple freakin' AMEN. (You should have seen my alma mater during the "grunge" era - the jackets around the waists thing was out of control. I thought it was lame, not out of letter disrespect but because it reminded me of doing that with my jacket when I was 10. )

Grunge is grungy enough without jackets around your waist. Although, when it gets too warm to have your jacket on, around the waist is more convenient than carrying it.

Originally Posted by 33girl

As far as the political question...sometimes that jacket with the letters on is the only weather-appropriate thing you have at college. That's one thing. But you don't need to also wear the letter sweatshirt, the colors, the bag with it, or say when handing out fliers "I'm a member of ASA and we just think Lyndon LaRouche is yummy!"

LOL. LOL.

Wearing letters when you hand out fliers could be interpreted the same way.

[ScarletBlueGold]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

One thing that I absolutely hated were the "XYZ for Obama" shirts. The shirts annoyed me on so many levels and some organizations made public statements against anything that created the appearance that "XYZ supports a candidate." Wear a shirt that's in the colors of your GLO if you want to. Don't put your GLO's letters, symbols, or any identifying markers on the shirt.

Amen

[rant/]Actually one of my biggest pet peeves are the "XYZ <3s ZYX" shirts or signs. Most of the time it's not a big deal, but some people actually take that shit seriously and start feeling entitled to friendships/dating opportunities in the other organization. I hear people say it all the time, "Oh XYZ? Yeah, they love us. If you join they will love you too."[/rant]

[33girl]

Originally Posted by ScarletBlueGold

Amen

[rant/]Actually one of my biggest pet peeves are the "XYZ <3s ZYX" shirts or signs. Most of the time it's not a big deal, but some people actually take that shit seriously and start feeling entitled to friendships/dating opportunities in the other organization. I hear people say it all the time, "Oh XYZ? Yeah, they love us. If you join they will love you too."[/rant]

Aren't those usually tied in with a Homecoming or Greek Week pairing?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Aren't those usually tied in with a Homecoming or Greek Week pairing?

Not for the NPHC. They are people wearing shirts reflecting constitutional bonds, unconstitutional bonds, and/or romantic relationships with other NPHCers.

How I feel about that depends on the context. NPHCers generally know the protocol and traditions.

[AnotherKD]

^^ I'm proud of her for speaking up, too. Unfortunately, it didn't make a difference, and it (of course) started a mild fight within the group. I wish there was something else I could tell her to do, but since the overwhelming majority of the group likes the fact that the sorority is represented in this way, I'm just kind of shrugging my shoulders on this one. And it's too bad.

[33girl]

She could always do something morally repugnant to prove a point (like wearing her letters to a White Power rally) but the downside of that is, umm, attending a White Power rally.

[Atalanta265]

Originally Posted by AnotherKD

^^ I'm proud of her for speaking up, too. Unfortunately, it didn't make a difference, and it (of course) started a mild fight within the group. I wish there was something else I could tell her to do, but since the overwhelming majority of the group likes the fact that the sorority is represented in this way, I'm just kind of shrugging my shoulders on this one. And it's too bad.

Since it's causing problems within the chapter, could your sister seek help from her Nationals? They could help them either mitigate and come to a compromise like wearing the colors but not letters. or they might be able to look deeper into the bylaws and see if there's something hidden in there.

i wish her sisters would be more understanding. politics is such a touchy subject for most that it's almost like mixing business and pleasure.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Atalanta265

Since it's causing problems within the chapter, could your sister seek help from her Nationals? They could help them either mitigate and come to a compromise like wearing the colors but not letters. or they might be able to look deeper into the bylaws and see if there's something hidden in there.

That's an interesting suggestion. I don't know about other GLOs but Delta has chapter advisors and regional directors (and other local and regional components) in the "chain of command" so that such relatively minute matters won't reach the National level.**




**Unless it became a concern across chapters such that a national statement and/or mandate must be made. That is why we have policies and procedures regarding symbols and are told what we can and cannot do in reference to such things as politics.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

**Unless it became a concern across chapters such that a national statement and/or mandate must be made. That is why we have policies and procedures regarding symbols and are told what we can and cannot do in reference to such things as politics.

That really is the best way to proceed, rather than this foolishness of not wearing letters "in a disrespectful way" or whatever other superduper vague language is in most national NIC/NPC policies. Obviously a sister who thinks her candidate is the greatest thing since sliced bread isn't going to regard wearing letters while she passes out his fliers as "disrespecting" them.

Unfortunately, the OP's sister has already put herself in a very unpopular position and calling in nationals would likely just make it worse.

[Atalanta265]

Unfortunately, the OP's sister has already put herself in a very unpopular position and calling in nationals would likely just make it worse.[/QUOTE]That is true. This topic is tough because I know I don't like it when I feel my frat or letters are being represented negatively. Like, we don't drink in public while wearing letters. And I know how I feel when a brother or sister does it.

I hope she finds something in the bylaws that will work on her side.

[Gusteau]

If I were in her shoes (and thank God my chapter brothers aren't so dense) I would bring up the issue at a meeting. Since the majority of the chapter seems to be against her, I would make in into an "okay, prove me wrong" scenario, and get a chapter advisor, Greek life advisor, or regional director to talk some sense into them. People love to prove that they're right, so they'll take the bait. This way you can get an outside perspecitve into the situation without becoming a tattletale.