Inactive members Dues

[twist696]

I'm gonna provide background if you wanna read it. if not skip it and read the Bold.

I'm one of the leading members of my local co-ed fraternity. We are currently running into major issues of dedication. We were founded in 1986 and keep very strong traditions making change pretty hard, Alumni are very involved in Week to week events and they do not like to see things change.

We currently have 36 members enrolled in our school however only 20 of them paid dues and even less would i really consider "active". They show up and go through the motions but aren't outgoing.

Our major events is based around pledging including 2 parties that the active members pay for everything through dues, Alumni come for free as do all the actives.

Our main problem is that there is very little incentive for paying dues and no one is willing to tell a person they consider a brother that they cannot show up to the events. Being in "bad standing" (haven't paid dues, don't show up to enough meeting etc...) doesn't stop you from coming to the free parties with free beer and free food.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how can we add "perks" for being in good standing and being active, or would you say suck it up and tell the members in bad standing they cannot come. What about brothers that graduate while in bad standing?

We are based on ideals that once your in, your in for life and cannot be exiled without a serious reason. (like killing someone level of reason)

Also there is no scholarship, no financial benefit, no housing, no real perks. of being in our family besides having a brotherhood for life that will be there like or better then your real family.

do other organizations have the problem of members not paying dues? how do you solve this? if you don't mind me asking how much are they? ours are normally around $80 depending on size of actives/pledges and pledging is free.

Thank you for any feedback

[Alumiyum]

You CAN tell them not to come. We did. The years that the officers in charge were too scared to do so were the years when we had the most trouble collecting dues on time. So do it. Have a meeting where you remind them that a fraternity is about brotherhood, but if they want to have parties, social activities, etc. they have to pay. If they genuinely can't at the time they sign promissary notes and pay what they can afford next month. This means meeting on an individual basis and having them "prove" that they can't pay. Only having a little extra money and wanting to spend it on going out instead of dues is absolutely not an excuse. Paying their way through college and having to choose between rent and dues is an excuse. If they have a legit reason for not paying, have them come up with a plan to pay. They need to understand they still owe full dues and they need to have a plan for paying those and catching up. $5 a month is fine if they can do that for 6 months and then start paying regular dues again. If they think they will never be able to they need to reconsider membership. That's harsh, but if you need money for a house, social events, etc. then that's reality.

Members who do not pay dues cannot come to social events, have voice in the chapter, or buy t-shirts. They are still expected to show up to all required events (lke chapter).

What are your dues for if there's no housing/scholarship? It's possible you need to look at how much money is coming in and whether that needs to be reduced so that dues are easier to afford.

Lastly make sure guys are being told how much dues are before they pledge, and maybe start stressing that dues are MANDATORY so that they just expect to pay them coming in.

[twist696]

I'll start from end and work backwards.

We are very secretive in a lot of the inner working but since i'm not saying names here i don't have a problem saying stuff but we do not tell them how much dues are. however we tell them they are less then the 1 other main fraternities dues. (they are pretty much public knowledge, $300ish) The thing is, 99% of the people that end up passing the pledging process pay dues, 2 or 3 semesters later they decide to stop. Not having money is rarely the reason not to pay. Coming up with $70 or $80 once a semester is pretty easy for most people. I know Alumni have paid for people that honestly can't pay.

What our dues goes towards is pretty much pledging, and that is all we need them for, events that invite outside guests normally generate money so at most they will just need money to be fronted.

We are based in NYC and we pay for the entire pledging process. Our pledging process is a little different then most. We attract pledges with a sudo rush week and then anyone who wants to continue pledging takes the oath and we start the real process which is 9 major events from teh second or third week of school till the end of the semester. Over this time we drop pledges that don't fit.

The money goes towards food for about 35 or 40 people at 3 of these events. metro cards ($4.50 each event per pledge) for 3 events for pledges, liquor for 50 people for 2 of the events, and a few things here or there. Also a pin and shirt for each pledge that makes it to the last event.

overall the process costs between 1350 to 1500 depending on the semester, and size of class ect... Some alumni do donate money and we thank them for it. They also donate their houses for a party 2 times a semester. So we would not be able to survive very well without them however do don't require money from them.

At most, we have 50 to 100 left over at the end of pledging but other times we are negative. (we have saved up a bit of a treasury, a few hundred to cover this)

As far as telling them not to come to open social events, it's pretty easy and they respect that or at least they pay the non greek cover but people have a problem telling their friend or roommate even, "sorry i know this is the pledging ceremony, but you didn't pay you can be here, go home" (the ceremony is followed by the second party)

In a very large group, say 90 people this is a lot different then say 30 people that are active members still int eh school.

Dedication as a whole seems to be wavering a bit, so i'm really looking for any suggestions that could help. I will continue to try and push either no entery or an entry fee for those that didn't pay due.

Thank you,

[Alumiyum]

I'll start from end and work backwards.

We are very secretive in a lot of the inner working but since i'm not saying names here i don't have a problem saying stuff but we do not tell them how much dues are. however we tell them they are less then the 1 other main fraternities dues. (they are pretty much public knowledge, $300ish) The thing is, 99% of the people that end up passing the pledging process pay dues, 2 or 3 semesters later they decide to stop. Not having money is rarely the reason not to pay. Coming up with $70 or $80 once a semester is pretty easy for most people. I know Alumni have paid for people that honestly can't pay.


I would suggest being upfront about the amount of dues. I can't see how that would hurt the fraternity. When PNM's go through rush (and I realize that I am in a sorority, but this part of the whole experience isn't that different) one of the most frequently asked questions is "How much?". If you're worried about explaining what goes where because that might reveal things the fraternity wants to keep between brothers then say that. But I'd suggest saying exactly how much they'll be expected to fork over a month/semester. And when you rush, it might help to start addressing this. When pledges go through, tell them how much they'll need to pay and what happens if they don't, and then come up with those "if they don't"s. Eventually new classes will think it's the norm to pay on time. It's even worse that they don't even have a reason for not paying.

Not paying for no reason means they don't respect your brotherhood. Tell them that. It doesn't matter that it sounds harsh, it's the truth. If brotherhood is what it's about then responsibility to the fraternity should be a priority and that does include financial support along with attendance and attitude. It's really great that your alumni pay for people that can't. That's a great way to handle it, but I'd also suggest having some process in place for determining whether people who can't pay really can't pay. (If that's ever been a problem)/

What our dues goes towards is pretty much pledging, and that is all we need them for, events that invite outside guests normally generate money so at most they will just need money to be fronted.

In that case I suggest that you tell brothers who are disrespectful to their fraternity (and yes, word it like that if the situation is this dire) they are not to participate in pledging events or to show up at parties. Then find officers that you KNOW have the balls to enforce this keep an eye out for them at these events. Don't fall back on alums.

We are based in NYC and we pay for the entire pledging process. Our pledging process is a little different then most. We attract pledges with a sudo rush week and then anyone who wants to continue pledging takes the oath and we start the real process which is 9 major events from teh second or third week of school till the end of the semester. Over this time we drop pledges that don't fit.

The money goes towards food for about 35 or 40 people at 3 of these events. metro cards ($4.50 each event per pledge) for 3 events for pledges, liquor for 50 people for 2 of the events, and a few things here or there. Also a pin and shirt for each pledge that makes it to the last event.

overall the process costs between 1350 to 1500 depending on the semester, and size of class ect... Some alumni do donate money and we thank them for it. They also donate their houses for a party 2 times a semester. So we would not be able to survive very well without them however do don't require money from them.

Remind your brothers how much these alumni help. Ask them, wouldn't they rather support themselves? Again, some of this stuff will make you feel like you're being an asshole, but it needs to be said.

At most, we have 50 to 100 left over at the end of pledging but other times we are negative. (we have saved up a bit of a treasury, a few hundred to cover this)

As far as telling them not to come to open social events, it's pretty easy and they respect that or at least they pay the non greek cover but people have a problem telling their friend or roommate even, "sorry i know this is the pledging ceremony, but you didn't pay you can be here, go home" (the ceremony is followed by the second party)

Tell them too bad. Initiation and pledging ceremonies are extremely important-more important, really, than the parties. If they can't support the brotherhood financially then they can't be part of it. I'd try using the term "suspension". In a lot of organizations members who don't make financial requirements (because they are forgetful or irresponsible, not because they actually can't) are suspended from privileges for the following semester. Tell them they can appreciate you not doing that and instead suspending them until they pay what they owe.

In a very large group, say 90 people this is a lot different then say 30 people that are active members still int eh school.

Dedication as a whole seems to be wavering a bit, so i'm really looking for any suggestions that could help. I will continue to try and push either no entery or an entry fee for those that didn't pay due.

Thank you

An entry fee isn't helpful. If they can pay for a party then they can certainly pay dues. Honestly, if my sisters were doing that I'd be hella pissed off. That's in your face saying "I don't care enough to be part of this organization, I just care enough to party". What's the point in having people with that attitude in a brotherhood? If they don't realize that's what they're saying, tell them. Help them understand.

Every time my chapter had a come to jesus meeting with sentiments like these being voiced it seemed to help morale and support. Pick someone who the brothers as a whole both LIKE and RESPECT. It needs to be someone who you think they will not just listen to but change for. Ask everyone to be honest: is it the brotherhood that's important or the social life. Some of them might not even realize they aren't all that serious about the brotherhood part. Have a popular alum come and talk about what the fraternity means to them. Do that cheesy cliche stuff. And then ENFORCE.

I would definitely suggest, though, that each pledge class that comes through after this be taught that dues are NOT optional and brotherhood is more important than booze and booty. Even if the current brothers don't really shape up, the chapter will get where it needs to be in the future.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by twist696

[/B]We are based on ideals that once your in, your in for life and cannot be exiled without a serious reason. (like killing someone level of reason)

How about a failing to live up to your responsibilities to your brothers level of reason?

Every GLO I know of is based on the ideal that once you're in, you're in for life. But every GLO I know of also has some process for suspending or moving to inactive status or otherwise imposing some kind of consequence on those who don't pay dues.

First off, you need to link this to brotherhood. You say the perk of membership is brotherhood for life. Capitalize on that -- brothers don't just have good times together, they have responsibilities to each other, and that includes the responsibility to share in expenses rather than letting a few people carry all the financial load. Those who don't pay their dues are not being good brothers to the rest of the fraternity.

Second, you need a policy in writing, in your bylaws or wherever is appropriate. That policy should indicate the consequences of not paying dues in a timely manner (like exclusion from social events or suspension from active status), and the procedure to be followed. It should also describe how to deal with true hardship cases.

As for alumni, they need to get on board of get out of the way.

[Kevin]

You don't need to bribe members to pay dues. That's self-defeating. I don't know any group which allows members to become 'inactive' while still attending officially sanctioned events. If that's happening and those members are still enrolled in the school, then if I were in your shoes, I'd stop that immediately.

As far as tradition goes, that's a horseshit reason for anything. I'm the chapter advisor for my chapter and I have a board of advisors which I'm kinda-sorta in charge of. One thing they all know NEVER to say is that an acceptable justification for doing something a certain way (or at all) is "because that's what we used to do." Times change, people change, technology changes, everything changes. So too must we adapt.

If since 1986, your group hasn't had a problem like this, then to me, that sounds like a helluva good justification for change. The status quo isn't manageable. You're in a position to fix it. Worst that can happen is doing nothing. If you try and fail, at least you tried.

-- and really... to hell with what alumni think (unless they're giving money, if they want their opinion to count, they'd better serve the organization with their time or treasure).

And what MC said, everything in writing. Make sure to set up strong enforcement mechanisms which are commanded by deadlines and actions officers are commanded to take and given little discretion over. E.g., 30 days late = social suspension/60 days = loss of any office, total suspension/90 days = termination of membership, automatic. Maybe allow those who are behind to take a semester off (1 total for the entire term of their active membership) to get caught up, follow up on payment plans, etc.

[lucgreek]

Honestly, If I never knew how much dues were exactly without a broken down budget I probably wouldn't pay either. Especially since it seems like there are no real programs/events for brothers who are already initiated. What's the point of paying once you're initiated if the money only goes to pledge events?

If I didn't see a broken down budget and voted on one each year, I wouldn't pay. Someone could easily be pocketing any extra money and inflating prices.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by lucgreek

If I didn't see a broken down budget and voted on one each year, I wouldn't pay. Someone could easily be pocketing any extra money and inflating prices.

Very good point. The budget and the amount of dues per member should be voted on every year.

[Matsimela]

Originally Posted by lucgreek

Especially since it seems like there are no real programs/events for brothers who are already initiated. What's the point of paying once you're initiated if the money only goes to pledge events?

I thought i was the only person that thought this!

It seems that the only reason one has to pay dues is for intake purposes. These "perks" that you think are lacking, IMO, would be events, workshops, etc that are meant specifically for members to participate in. I love doing intake for my org but if that honestly was ALL we did, i wouldnt pay dues either. On this logic, it is completely understandable how by senior year you could lose interest in being financial and what have you.

Of course i could be reading this wrong but on the surface that is how im taking it.

[twist696]

Sorry i haven't gotten back to this yet.
First i wanna just thank everyone for all of their input.

I'll start and the bottom and work up.

a estimated budget is drawn up and dues are set tp (people that we expect to pay dues/budget) normally comes out between $70 and $80, it has been that amount since at least 1996. Then we vote during the second meeting each semester. Any money left over goes into a treasury that has a book associated with it that everything is tracked. Only one person has access to it (the "treasurer") and there is an audit every time it switches hands. That money builds up and it's used for throwing parties open to the public, doing events for our "rush week", or covering the price of pledging. Though at any point in time, the treasury - the pledging budget isn't more then like $200 or $300.

Most of the money that goes into pledging goes to food and boos for the 2 parties where everyone drinks and eats for free. Though the first party pledges aren't allowed to drink.

Back to paying dues. Every person that crossed last semester, paid dues. that is 10 our of 36 members left int he school. another 10 paid dues, between sophomores and juniors. that leaves 16 people spread throughout that haven't paid. Not one senior (the people with jobs that can easily afford it) paid. Its like they just lose interest in their family, graduate, show up at the parties, and then 3 or 4 years later decide they want to be an active alumni who shows up to all events, and even some meetings.

There has always been people that aren't up for paying dues but it's nomrally been 3 or 4 people out of about 40, and those people usually decided for themselves that We is not for them and choose not to be apart of us at all. which is upsetting but a decision that i find much less disrespectful then what is happening now.

[jennyj87]

Tri Delta has a 30-60-90 day policy.
30 days past due they are on bad standing with the chapter. No socials, no wearing letters, etc
60 days past due they are on bad stadning with the fraternity. Still no socials and such, but they couldn't go to national events like convention or RLC.
90 days past due and they are up for termination. usually at this point they pay or they are financially terminated.

Since you guys are a local, tweek it for your preference.

[FSUZeta]

my sorority has a rule that requires a member who was financially expelled, to bring her account current if she wants to be considered an active member again. this rule applies whether she is a collegian or someone who has graduated and would like to be an active alumna.

most sororities and fraternities have a pledging fee and an initiation fee,which are separate from dues. the pledging and initiation fees are one time fees that you pay when you are a new member/pledge, shortly after you join. charging fees like this might give you more operating capital, and would impact only new pledges, not current pledges or members. everyone pays dues.