GreekChat.com Forums  

Go Back   GreekChat.com Forums > Greek Life
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Greek Life This forum is for various discussion topics regarding greek life. If you are posting a non-greek related message, please do so in one of the General Chat Topic forums.

» GC Stats
Members: 329,762
Threads: 115,670
Posts: 2,205,237
Welcome to our newest member, ataylortsz4237
» Online Users: 2,664
3 members and 2,661 guests
3DGator, Louieneods
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-16-2009, 11:55 AM
ThetaPrincess24 ThetaPrincess24 is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 5,724
Princeton sends letter to parents regarding concerns about Greek Life

Daily Princetonian
Princeton University
April 29, 2009
http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2009/04/29/23574/

Tilghman explains continued concerns about Greek life

By Melanie Jearlds, Staff Writer

As the University prepares to welcome another class of incoming freshmen,
these members of the Class of 2013 will receive a letter from Dean of
Undergraduate Students Kathleen Deignan and Vice President for Campus Life
Janet Dickerson over the summer informing them that the University does not
support fraternities and sororities on campus.

President Tilghman said in an interview last Wednesday that the
administration continues to discourage incoming students from participating
in Greek life on campus because she believes it restricts students’ social
lives.

Several members of Greek organizations on campus said they were opposed to
the University sending out a letter asking students not to join organizations.

“I thought it was unnecessary and really not the school’s place to
interfere in such a manner,” said Caroline Rawls ’12, a member of Kappa
Alpha Theta. “Does the school send out letters asking kids not to join
other organizations? No. So why should they send out a letter discouraging
students to join a sorority or fraternity when they would never do the
exact same thing for any other organization?”

But Tilghman said she thinks fraternities and sororities do not contribute
as much to campus life as other groups, like athletic teams or performance
groups.

“Those groups are forming around an ability, a talent [or] an interest that
is likely to attract students from lots of socioeconomic groups, from lots
of different geographical backgrounds, from lots of racial groups,” she
explained. “When I’ve seen the way that fraternities and sororities go
about attracting their membership, it’s not based on talent. It’s based on
social comfort. And that strikes me as fundamentally different than joining
a football team or joining an a cappella group.”

Tilghman added that she thinks the University’s letter may serve to inform
students that Greek organizations do exist on campus and actually spark
interest in joining a fraternity or sorority.

“I do worry … that it is a potential unintended consequence,” she said. “I
still feel that it is important for the University to inform both the
students and their parents what our policy is in regards to not recognizing
these social groups.”

Tilghman said she was also concerned that participation in fraternities or
sororities leads to early “segregation of students along racial … [and]
socioeconomic lines.”

She said she is worried, in particular, by how rush activities come early
during the academic year, leaving freshmen little time to form outside
friendships prior to joining Greek societies.

“I think I have to go all the way back to Woodrow Wilson ... who said one
of the most important things you do at Princeton is ... encounter the
‘other,’ ” Tilghman said. “When groups form * and more often than not,
these are forming among students who feel very comfortable with each other
* you’re losing your opportunity during your first and second year at
Princeton to encounter the ‘other,’ and that’s my philosophical objection.”

But Kappa Alpha Theta president Emmy Ill ’10 said she thinks sororities
like hers were beneficial to the campus community.

“I feel that sororities do add to University life in numerous ways, and I
hope we will develop a positive relationship with the administration,” she
said in an e-mail, declining to offer any other comments on the subject.

Numerous other members of sororities and fraternities who were contacted
either declined to or did not respond to requests for comment.

Fraternities and sororities have long had strained relations with the
administration. Back in 2004, officials in Nassau Hall approached officers
from the Greek societies about the possibility of delaying rush until
January or February, and the groups refused. The students were unwilling to
consider the request for fear of conflicts with Bicker, Tilghman said.

But Rawls said the timing of rush during the fall semester of her freshman
year did not restrict her social life.

“We have over a month to get information about Greek life and determine
whether or not it is for you,” Rawls said. “Because things like the
activities fair happen before rush anyway, it’s not like people aren’t
already involved in other activities and informed about other social and
service options that they might find interesting.”

Tilghman also criticized the way sororities and fraternities feed directly
into the bicker clubs.

“We know that happens,” she said. “We’ve documented it year in and year
out. Anyone who says that doesn’t happen hasn’t looked at the data.”

Though there are clear comparisons to be made between the Greek
organizations and the eating clubs, Tilghman said she thinks there was an
important distinction between the two because students don’t join clubs
until halfway through sophomore year.

“You don’t really become active in the eating club until your junior and
senior year, so by that time you have had a year-and-a-half to two years to
meet lots of people, join lots of groups, create different ways of having a
social life at Princeton, and I think you are ready to make some decisions
about how you want to spend your last two years,” she explained.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-16-2009, 12:01 PM
KSigkid KSigkid is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: New England
Posts: 9,328
I think there was already a thread on this - anyway, this is something they do every year, and because they're Princeton they can do whatever they want. Greek life is great, but Princeton students will get some other pretty great experiences in their time at the school.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-16-2009, 12:19 PM
MysticCat MysticCat is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: A dark and very expensive forest
Posts: 12,731
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSigkid View Post
I think there was already a thread on this -
Princeton discourages freshman from joining fraternities and sororities

And yeah . . . it's Princeton.
__________________
AMONG MEN HARMONY
1898
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-16-2009, 12:44 PM
Munchkin03 Munchkin03 is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Home.
Posts: 8,261
This comes up for discussion every year here, and the same issues are brought up:
  • Greek Life is not recognized by the University; there are, however, several chapters that have been successful. The NPHC chapters, as an example, are a group where the lack of University endorsement has not posed a problem in terms of interest and numbers.
  • Yes, there are eating clubs which serve similar purposes to fraternity and sorority houses. These clubs, however, are older than some national fraternities and their alumni are very active donors.
  • The Princeton alumni network, and those of many prestigious private schools, is far more tight-knit and useful to its alumni than a Greek alumni network will ever be.
  • The kids who will be part of Princeton's Class of 2013 are extremely well-resourced, either by their own hard work or socioeconomic privilege. I doubt very little will stop them if they really want to join a Greek organization.
  • A good number of HS students pick Princeton because the Greek system is not dominant.
  • President Tighlman is within her rights, as the president of a private university, to do this.This is also part of a larger trend of elite private universities pulling away from Greek Life (see Amherst, Middlebury, Williams, Dartmouth, etc., etc.)

So, why are we still bellyaching about this?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-16-2009, 01:21 PM
ThetaPrincess24 ThetaPrincess24 is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 5,724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchkin03 View Post
This comes up for discussion every year here, and the same issues are brought up:
  • Greek Life is not recognized by the University; there are, however, several chapters that have been successful. The NPHC chapters, as an example, are a group where the lack of University endorsement has not posed a problem in terms of interest and numbers.
  • Yes, there are eating clubs which serve similar purposes to fraternity and sorority houses. These clubs, however, are older than some national fraternities and their alumni are very active donors.
  • The Princeton alumni network, and those of many prestigious private schools, is far more tight-knit and useful to its alumni than a Greek alumni network will ever be.
  • The kids who will be part of Princeton's Class of 2013 are extremely well-resourced, either by their own hard work or socioeconomic privilege. I doubt very little will stop them if they really want to join a Greek organization.
  • A good number of HS students pick Princeton because the Greek system is not dominant.
  • President Tighlman is within her rights, as the president of a private university, to do this.This is also part of a larger trend of elite private universities pulling away from Greek Life (see Amherst, Middlebury, Williams, Dartmouth, etc., etc.)

So, why are we still bellyaching about this?

I guess I should go back to using my own search function This is the first year I have heard about it from Princeton.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-17-2009, 12:11 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hotel Oceanview
Posts: 34,519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchkin03 View Post
So, why are we still bellyaching about this?
If I was a student, I'd be plenty pissed off that my monies were going for something that 1) is so condescending and discriminatory and 2) obviously isn't working (or they wouldn't have to keep doing it every freaking year).
__________________
It is all 33girl's fault. ~DrPhil
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-17-2009, 03:24 PM
KSigkid KSigkid is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: New England
Posts: 9,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
If I was a student, I'd be plenty pissed off that my monies were going for something that 1) is so condescending and discriminatory and 2) obviously isn't working (or they wouldn't have to keep doing it every freaking year).
But comparatively it's such a small amount of money, per student, that goes to sending out these letters or incorporating this into the new student orientation.

I could see why they do it every year, so that they get the message across to the new students. It may sound like a broken record to the rest of us, but the incoming students (their intended audience) are hearing it for the first time. If I remember correctly it's something that's also mentioned during the interviews with the alumni volunteers (if it's brought up by the student).

Maybe I'm a bit biased because I went to a university that was anti-Greek, with an anti-Greek administration as well. It was frustrating sometimes, but at the end of the day it didn't make a lot of difference. I don't see it as condesending or discriminatory - every school makes choices about what groups and organizations it will welcome, and which ones it will resist. Princeton has just made the decision not to welcome Greek life.

ETA: When I was in college, I probably would have been a little more fired up about it. Now though, a few years out of it, I understand where Princeton Greeks would be frustrated. At the same time, I don't quite see it being as big of a deal as I would have when I was 18-21.

Last edited by KSigkid; 07-17-2009 at 03:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-17-2009, 03:25 PM
KSigkid KSigkid is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: New England
Posts: 9,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchkin03 View Post
[*]President Tighlman is within her rights, as the president of a private university, to do this.This is also part of a larger trend of elite private universities pulling away from Greek Life (see Amherst, Middlebury, Williams, Dartmouth, etc., etc.)[/LIST]
I think Wesleyan has gotten more like this over the years - from friends I've had who've attended, they've said that Greek life, while never a major part of campus, has gotten more and more marginalized.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-17-2009, 04:14 PM
Imus Imus is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 13
I think it is all about eliminating the eating club's competition.

Last edited by Imus; 07-17-2009 at 04:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-17-2009, 03:05 PM
chickenoodle chickenoodle is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 708
Forgive the newbie; I have a question.

It was my understanding that in order to bring greek orgs onto a college campus, the college must give approval. If this is the case, why and when did Princeton change its policy?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-17-2009, 09:10 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hotel Oceanview
Posts: 34,519
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenoodle View Post
Forgive the newbie; I have a question.

It was my understanding that in order to bring greek orgs onto a college campus, the college must give approval. If this is the case, why and when did Princeton change its policy?
They did have approval when they initially came onto the campus. Princeton changed its policy because they are being "politically correct" which is a synonym for jackasses.

In response to another post, yeah it is a small amount of $$ compared with what you pay in tuition there - it's the principle of the thing. Like I said, if it was working, the fraternities and sororities would have died out - instead, we keep hearing about the pledge classes getting bigger and bigger. If the administration were NFL coaches they'd have been fired long ago.

My question is, if the eating clubs are so the be all and end all, why did the Greeks come onto campus in the first place? Or is it like an article I remember reading about Yale - to summarize, the old money, "white shoe" students joined the clubs that had been around forever and the new money/foreign students joined sororities.
__________________
It is all 33girl's fault. ~DrPhil
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-17-2009, 10:10 PM
KSigkid KSigkid is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: New England
Posts: 9,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
In response to another post, yeah it is a small amount of $$ compared with what you pay in tuition there - it's the principle of the thing. Like I said, if it was working, the fraternities and sororities would have died out - instead, we keep hearing about the pledge classes getting bigger and bigger. If the administration were NFL coaches they'd have been fired long ago.

My question is, if the eating clubs are so the be all and end all, why did the Greeks come onto campus in the first place? Or is it like an article I remember reading about Yale - to summarize, the old money, "white shoe" students joined the clubs that had been around forever and the new money/foreign students joined sororities.
I'm not sure if the pledge class sizes are going up at all at Princeton, or whether the numbers have stayed stagnant. I think the size of Greek life on campus has been fairly consistent over the years, although I'm not entirely sure on that.

As to the administration - the Greek Life thing is such a small part of their job that I'm sure that most of the influential alums (including trustees) don't care how they feel about Greek life, or are happy with Greek life's small role. I'll again compare it to my school (a school with a less prestigious reputation, haha)...administration has downplayed Greek life at Boston U for about 15-20 years, and it has had little to no effect on the perception of administration. For the most part, alumni are fine with Greek life being marginalized at the school. Heck, I was extremely involved in Greek life in college (between my chapter and the Interfraternity Council), and although I'd like to see my chapter thrive, the vitality of Greek life will have no impact on how I view the administration.

As for the eating clubs - I've heard the same things as Munchkin (at least as far as Princeton is concerned), in that they attract a wide range of socioeconomic backgrounds.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-20-2009, 01:02 PM
Imus Imus is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSigkid View Post

As for the eating clubs - I've heard the same things as Munchkin (at least as far as Princeton is concerned), in that they attract a wide range of socioeconomic backgrounds.

At $45k/yr(tuition, room, and board) do you think Princeton attracts students from a wide range of socioeconomic backgrounds?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-20-2009, 01:36 PM
Psi U MC Vito Psi U MC Vito is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: nasty and inebriated
Posts: 5,772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imus View Post
At $45k/yr(tuition, room, and board) do you think Princeton attracts students from a wide range of socioeconomic backgrounds?
Well there are the scholarship students as well as those who take out loans, so yeah I do.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-20-2009, 01:41 PM
KSigkid KSigkid is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: New England
Posts: 9,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imus View Post
At $45k/yr(tuition, room, and board) do you think Princeton attracts students from a wide range of socioeconomic backgrounds?
Yes, I do. You can't really presume the variety of people who attend a university based on its sticker price; Princeton also has a pretty healthy endowment from which it can offer scholarships and need-based aid.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Princeton Review - Greek Life & Party Rankings Pike4Life Greek Life 28 02-04-2009 12:15 PM
Princeton Review: Most Intense Greek Life Scene Zeta13Girl Greek Life 44 08-24-2008 03:00 AM
LXA sends "Dear Brother" letter hoosier Greek Life 18 11-11-2005 12:59 AM
USouthCarolina: Greek Web site raises racial concerns kdonline Greek Life 49 11-10-2005 01:34 AM
Good letter about Greek Life Xylochick216 Greek Life 2 11-03-2005 01:20 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.