The city of Seattle does not use salt on the snowy/icy roads!!!

[AKA_Monet]

The city of Seattle does not use salt on the snowy/icy roads!!!

In the Pacific Northwest, we are having one of the worst runs of snow and ice in 50 years. It has never been like this and many of our Decembers' have been rainy or green.

But this year, we have gotten back to back snowstorms. Traffic is ridiculous. People are stuck on side roads for ~2 hours. The freeways are okay, because the STATE of Washington can use salt on the freeways since they go into the mountains... But the city of Seattle is being anal about being green and chooses NOT to use salt on many of the streets. So people can get to their homes, they cannot get to work and they definitely cannot get to do Holiday shopping...

I can understand that being green is okay for an occasional snow that lasts 2 days. But for 2 weeks we have been wrapped under a blanket of snow and ice. NO salt usage? WTH!!!

Search on Google for the news about this!!!

I am really POed with these people--another reason I am really not liking this place!!!

[WCsweet<3]

Yeah, I'm in Portland, so I know the feeling.
I don't know anything about salting or not.

[KappaKittyCat]

I'd be okay with my city not using as much salt this winter if they'd actually PLOW.

ETA: The problem with where I live is that often right after it snows the temperature drops significantly, so low that salt isn't useful. And since they don't plow until a day or two after the snow, the snow's all packed down and slick as all hell.

As long as they keep using salt with ice storms, I'm okay.

[Benzgirl]

One of the communities around here uses beet juice instead of straight brine.

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008...ice_beats.html

Road crews have spread tens of thousands of gallons of beet juice on Ohio roads this winter as a less corrosive way to keep ice and snow away. Results have been mostly positive so far.

Akron ordered 4,000 gallons of the juice, called Geomelt, last year and used all of it in the past month. The city anticipates ordering another 4,000 gallons soon.

"It's doing what the sales people said it would," Public Works Manager Paul Barnett said.


When combined with rock salt brine and calcium chloride, the juice blocks ice from forming on pavement even at extremely low temperatures.

The concoction is supposed to stick to the road better than traditional treatments. And adding beet juice lessens the use and effect of calcium chloride, which corrodes cars, concrete and steel.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by AGDee

They could use other things like sand too. That's what they use in the south. There's no excuse to not do "something" except that I heard they only have 27 snow plows.

As an aside, they are not salting as many roads or plowing as well as they used to in previous years here in metro Detroit either. It's a money thing, not a green thing though. Some roads just aren't getting done and those roads are getting scary dangerous to drive on.

I heard about Trenton on the news and thought that was ridiculous. Maybe money should first go to safety before they blow it all on the Trenton Street Fair and the Taste of Trenton. My subdivision has been getting plowed and salted constantly, which confuses me. It made sense when Mayor and Chief Hall were in their respected offices, but there is no one of city or county significance here. The roads altogether sucked yesterday.

I think cities and counties need to think of safety first, green later. And really, is using salt REALLY that non-green friendly?

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

I think cities and counties need to think of safety first, green later. And really, is using salt REALLY that non-green friendly?

As living in one of the most tree huggiest States that every exisited, Washington State, according to the "eco-terrorist" salt is ABSOLUTELY NOT green friendly...

But neither are combustible engines that are idling for hours waiting to get home from traffic, which in one area of downtown Seattle, folks waited 2+ hours to just get on a groomed by salted freeway!!!

Now, I can understand using a green alternative in Seattle. Really it's not like other places that REALLY get snow. Most of time, when we do get snow, it's only 2-3 days and it all melts. Zero reason to use salt all the time... But these last storms that many other states felt, ain't no usual 2-3 days of snow--more like 2-3 weeks of it with ice, now...

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

I heard about Trenton on the news and thought that was ridiculous. Maybe money should first go to safety before they blow it all on the Trenton Street Fair and the Taste of Trenton. My subdivision has been getting plowed and salted constantly, which confuses me. It made sense when Mayor and Chief Hall were in their respected offices, but there is no one of city or county significance here. The roads altogether sucked yesterday.

I think cities and counties need to think of safety first, green later. And really, is using salt REALLY that non-green friendly?

They've been plowing and salting my subdivision, but I don't think they ever plowed Van Horn after Friday's dump of snow. So, our side streets were great, but Wayne County roads were awful. They didn't do the turn arounds on Fort for a long time either. Those finally seem ok now. Woodhaven was out today, plowing snow away from some of the storm drains that were covered in the subdivision, because the water in the street had nowhere to go. They've been really good, actually. It's the Wayne County roads.. ugh.

ETA: I was at my uncle's house in Warren tonight and their main roads are fine but his street was awful. It was if they hadn't plowed and now it was half melty/slushy in the street. When it freezes, there will be no driving on that street at all.

[DGTess]

Salt helps melt the snow, but can cause worse issues. Without an extremely precise application, the melted snow simply refreezes and then you have glare ice -- much more dangerous than snow.

Sand is often a significantly better choice. Even a salt/sand mixture is often not as good, as the sand just gets frozen back in to the ice, or washed away.

Smart driving does infinitely better, but "smart drivers" are definitely more the exception than the rule.

Now that geomelt -- if it really keeps ice from forming, it'd be worth its weight in gold.

[PhiGam]

Environmental activism has gone too far, there's no way that using salt to clear roads would seriously endanger the environment!

[VandalSquirrel]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...leanup23m.html

Here's one article from a Seattle paper which mentions why salt and sand are not their first choice, but doesn't go into much detail. One reason why Seattle wouldn't use the chemicals is more about geography than about tree-hugging. All of that runs into the sewers and directly into Puget Sound. Granted stuff used on the east side can run into the Columbia and the Snake, and eventually out to the Pacific. It is also much more humid on the west side due to the rain forest and the proximity to the Ocean. It is much drier over here, which can help, and it stays colder longer (though it is raining and melting now, ugh, so it can refreeze snow on top of ice).

This article http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/...lackice20.html discusses other alternative deicing such as waste water from cheese making. I'd also not like salt as the underneath of my car has corrosion, which didn't happen from my town, but from previous winters in Alaska before I bought it and from traveling in other states.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...leanup23m.html

Here's one article from a Seattle paper which mentions why salt and sand are not their first choice, but doesn't go into much detail. One reason why Seattle wouldn't use the chemicals is more about geography than about tree-hugging. All of that runs into the sewers and directly into Puget Sound. Granted stuff used on the east side can run into the Columbia and the Snake, and eventually out to the Pacific. It is also much more humid on the west side due to the rain forest and the proximity to the Ocean. It is much drier over here, which can help, and it stays colder longer (though it is raining and melting now, ugh, so it can refreeze snow on top of ice).

This article http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/...lackice20.html discusses other alternative deicing such as waste water from cheese making. I'd also not like salt as the underneath of my car has corrosion, which didn't happen from my town, but from previous winters in Alaska before I bought it and from traveling in other states.

While agree with you on an occasional snow that lasts only 2-3 days. It is very irresponsible of KING county of Washington State, to purport this logic when people, nor transportation, can get to their places of work. Other counties, such as Pierce which has Tacoma and Everett, which I think is either Snohomish or its own county (I apologize for not knowing) use salt on their streets.

The other issue Trash has not been picked up for 2-3 weeks in some places because the trucks cannot get to certain areas.

If people are paying property taxes, etc., then they are owed some level of living in human decency. Last I looked, Washington State is a part of the UNITED STATES! And sometimes, King county seems to forget this with their elitist aristocracy. Believe me if the road weren't groomed in Mercer Island, you would have all kinds of laws changed.

The other issue is here: Jesse Jones of King 5 news... He tells it like it is... If you want your street plowed, (206) 386-1218... They are saying no one requested plowing!!! King was not plowing some people's streets because they did not call and request it... Now that is some BS.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

While agree with you on an occasional snow that lasts only 2-3 days. It is very irresponsible of KING county of Washington State, to purport this logic when people, nor transportation, can get to their places of work. Other counties, such as Pierce which has Tacoma and Everett, which I think is either Snohomish or its own county (I apologize for not knowing) use salt on their streets.

The other issue Trash has not been picked up for 2-3 weeks in some places because the trucks cannot get to certain areas.

If people are paying property taxes, etc., then they are owed some level of living in human decency. Last I looked, Washington State is a part of the UNITED STATES! And sometimes, King county seems to forget this with their elitist aristocracy. Believe me if the road weren't groomed in Mercer Island, you would have all kinds of laws changed.

The other issue is here: Jesse Jones of King 5 news... He tells it like it is... If you want your street plowed, (206) 386-1218... They are saying no one requested plowing!!! King was not plowing some people's streets because they did not call and request it... Now that is some BS.

Is there not a snow route for plowing? Maybe that's something I'm taking for granted because there is a plan for when it is going to snow, and you know which roads will be cleared. Since I'm renting my landlord pays to have snow from our house removed, but we have sidewalk laws which the city isn't enforcing.

What isn't helping is the 45 mph and higher winds while it is snowing. The water on the ground is freezing and snow is piling on top of it, and it is pretty dangerous out there. I'm fortunate enough I can walk to work, but with parking I'm damned if I want to park in my garage, and damned if I park on the street. I could have a coworker pick me up a couple blocks away and walk down, but it is so stupid I live half a block from a main road and people use my street to avoid the highway that they can't plow it.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

Is there not a snow route for plowing? Maybe that's something I'm taking for granted because there is a plan for when it is going to snow, and you know which roads will be cleared. Since I'm renting my landlord pays to have snow from our house removed, but we have sidewalk laws which the city isn't enforcing.

In King County, there is no snow routes for plowing. All routes that get plowed are the freeways that are governed by the State of Washington, which uses salt.

So streets like Mercer St. and West Lake Sammamish--don't get plowed. Even with 5 inches of ice with fresh powder snow. Now King County can say what it wants when the snow is only going to last 2-3 days and use alternatives as much as they want. But, when the State shuts down both I-90 and 520 freeways (another issue in and of itself), a whole bunch of people attempt to drive the by the top of Lake Washington into Seattle or take the tortuous trip on I-405 south into Seattle, which is treacherous and the only safest road to get into Seattle might be Elliot Bay Way--since the Alaskan Way Viaduct is in very poor shape...

And as some Seattlelites pride themselves, they can barely drive in the water, much less on ice.

This is NO ordinary situation.

As far as contracting the plowing out, that would have been nice, however, all the folks who were tapped did it for freeways/highways and highest bidder... Where I live, simple snow shovels were UNAVAILABLE by the 2nd snowstorm!

[AnchorAlum]

I've lived all over the country, from the Midwest and Northeast, where they use salt very freely, to Dallas, where all they have are sand trucks.

I fall somewhere in the middle on this - I can see the point that Seattle greens are trying to make, and in some northern cities where I've lived the use of salt seemed a bit overboard, but the city cannot come to a complete halt for lack of anything being used.

Of course, it's SO easy for me to sit down here in Florida and tell others who have to live with the snow and ice how to conduct their business!

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlum

I've lived all over the country, from the Midwest and Northeast, where they use salt very freely, to Dallas, where all they have are sand trucks.

I fall somewhere in the middle on this - I can see the point that Seattle greens are trying to make, and in some northern cities where I've lived the use of salt seemed a bit overboard, but the city cannot come to a complete halt for lack of anything being used.

Of course, it's SO easy for me to sit down here in Florida and tell others who have to live with the snow and ice how to conduct their business!

I am disliking you right now with the Florida thing...

Anywho, it is snowing here right now. It is said that it will switch to rain. Either way there is ice and the morning commute is going to be a flub...

No sand or salt is going get through any kinna ice...