Many a National sets themselves up for chapter hazing

[James]

This may apply to National Fraternities more than some of the Sororities . . .

But . . .

ITs the lack of our National Programming that gives a chapter a lot of individual leeway for hazing.

Most sororities have a National pledge program (call it what you want) with very little "official" local variation.

This allows them to emphasize training year after year in how to run their programs. And because many of the major events and activities are structured by National and emphasized/trained year after year it eliminates some forms of hazing.

I am not saying that hazing doesn't happen, but its less likely under their system.

Most fraternities do not have a national progam, just guidelines. this measn that there can be very little training on how to run a program in terms of individual events. This allows more latitude for hazing or risky events.

I think a lot of sororities would be horrified to see how unstructured and varied our prgrams are . . .

I have to run so can't complete this post . . . any feedback so far?

[phisigsigchic]

I think you are right. being a member of a sorority, i was not hazed at all. In fact I am still shocked by how great everything went. I mean I knew the girls, most of them were my friends even b4 I joined so I wasn't expecting something horrible but just you know some kind of typical greek pledging thing. But nope not anything in the slightest. In fact I had a blast while I was a new member! I got gifts and lots of attention. In fact, I see myself getting jealous now that I am sister and will be just watching the new members go through their experience! But my guy friends in the greek system who were rushing and pledging at the same time as me or previously sure had different opinions! While I was always happy and talked excitely about everything going on, they complained and moaned and wondered when it would all be over already. And I have always said if I come back as a guy in another life (LOL) I would never EVER join the greek system. No offense to fraternities, but yea their new member period bites!

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by James
I think a lot of sororities would be horrified to see how unstructured and varied our prgrams are . . .

I have to run so can't complete this post . . . any feedback so far?

So, too much freedom can be detrimental? What about all of those "rights" we cry about?

(DA can sometimes stand for Devil's Advocate)

Actually, having a lot of James' stuff, I suspect he means that "rules" need to be defined in order to work -- which we often don't do well -- although I wouldn't attempt to put words in his mouth.

[hoosier]

A great benefit of fraternity membership is the opportunity to fail, and hopefully learn from it.

If the chapter and treasurer fail to budget and spend correctly, there may not be $$ left at the end of the year for the big dance or food. It's assessment time. Hopefully they'll learn, and do better next year.

Similarly, the pledge program can be planned, adjusted, and evaluated. If it fails, hopefully the pledge trainer/chapter will learn and do better.

The sororities - with their stifling rules, Pan Hel, alumnae guardians, etc. - miss this great benefit.

Of course, their rules and alumnae guardians result in must prettier houses, financial stability, etc.

I'd rather be in a bunch that is learning and getting better, even if that occasionally includes a failure and an assessment.

[James]

[b]It is one thing to make mistakes while learning the Market, it enhances knowledge and creativity, its another to screw up balancing your checkbook because no one took a few minutes to teach you effectively and follow up with you. [b]

I question the levels of failure, and the mechanism that a chapter uses to increase its learning curve.

To use your examples: Yes a treasurer will learn from failure to budget, but often will not be treasurer the following year. People generally improve the second semester but improvement is relative. Also, because the treasurer's training tends to be inferior he starts with very small knowledge base and no experience. The same is going to apply to the pledge program etc.

Most chapter's don't even use officer notebooks and the ones that do are far from thorough. In order to be a true record of the semester it would almost have to be a journal that teaches the personal experiences and observations of the previous officer. If only filled out periodically. Then a pretty thorough briefing between officers . . . most transitions suck.


The answer is easy: Better manuals (almost like workbooks), better training (specific to your chapter), Better programs (direct action orientated instead of vague and wishy washy), thorough officer notebooks, and better transition.

Sororities recognize these problems and try to counter them by micromanaging. I agree its not the best answer, but in lieu of doing he above, which would require training the alum officers also, it works.

ITs not brain surgery, it just requires, knowledge, effort and will. Is that so hard?

Originally posted by hoosier
A great benefit of fraternity membership is the opportunity to fail, and hopefully learn from it.

If the chapter and treasurer fail to budget and spend correctly, there may not be $$ left at the end of the year for the big dance or food. It's assessment time. Hopefully they'll learn, and do better next year.

Similarly, the pledge program can be planned, adjusted, and evaluated. If it fails, hopefully the pledge trainer/chapter will learn and do better.

The sororities - with their stifling rules, Pan Hel, alumnae guardians, etc. - miss this great benefit.

Of course, their rules and alumnae guardians result in must prettier houses, financial stability, etc.

I'd rather be in a bunch that is learning and getting better, even if that occasionally includes a failure and an assessment.

[James]

Rules need to be translated into actions in order to work . . .

For example, you can't raise a child by telling him what [b]not]/b] to do. You have to teach the child what he can do and how to do the things he wants to do in an acceptable way.

Well you can if you want to be an inadequate parent.

Originally posted by DeltAlum


So, too much freedom can be detrimental? What about all of those "rights" we cry about?

(DA can sometimes stand for Devil's Advocate)

Actually, having a lot of James' stuff, I suspect he means that "rules" need to be defined in order to work -- which we often don't do well -- although I wouldn't attempt to put words in his mouth.

[madmax]

Originally posted by James
This may apply to National Fraternities more than some of the Sororities . . .

But . . .

ITs the lack of our National Programming that gives a chapter a lot of individual leeway for hazing.

Most sororities have a National pledge program (call it what you want) with very little "official" local variation.

This allows them to emphasize training year after year in how to run their programs. And because many of the major events and activities are structured by National and emphasized/trained year after year it eliminates some forms of hazing.

I am not saying that hazing doesn't happen, but its less likely under their system.

Most fraternities do not have a national progam, just guidelines. this measn that there can be very little training on how to run a program in terms of individual events. This allows more latitude for hazing or risky events.

I think a lot of sororities would be horrified to see how unstructured and varied our prgrams are . . .

I have to run so can't complete this post . . . any feedback so far?

I disagree.

What makes you think a group will follow a national pledge program any more than they follow the current national risk management program?

If a group already breaks rules A, B, and C, passing rule D isnt going to accomplish much.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by James
[B]Rules need to be translated into actions in order to work . . .

For example, you can't raise a child by telling him what not]/b] to do. You have to teach the child what he can do and how to do the things he wants to do in an acceptable way.

Well you can if you want to be an inadequate parent.

Truth is, you have to do a fair amount of both. Safety, for instance, is not intuitive, particularly to young children. A lot of ideas do not come naturally. You have to "explain" why it's not OK to hit your playmates.

That learning curve continues throughout life. The method of "explaination" (and comprehension) changes -- but the guidance is still necessary. Hasn't that been the reason for teen/parent discord? Isn't that why a lot of people "hate" their boss?

But they do learn. And that's the intent.

By the way, I've been both boss and parent -- and it isn't much fun always being the authority figure. But "someone has to do it."

Been there, done that, got the scars.

[OnePlus69Is70]

I can say that not all nationals tow the official line all the time. Before we became a local (which is within my memory, so this isn't heresay) we were ENCOURAGED to haze, unofficially. Officially, it was very bad, very bad indeed to haze. Unofficially....a rep from our national told us, and I quote, "Put those boys in a room with a couple bottles of tequila and don't let them out 'till it's gone."

National policies and national rules are only good while the NATIONAL actually enforces them....otherwise all they do is confuse and irritate the undergrads.

[AlphaSigLana]

Nationals can make as many programs as they like, but I think that things still won't change.
I believe that when people are told they are one way they begin to beleive and act that way example: SOME blondes(by the way I am blonde) after being stereotyped begin to act ditzy because they think this is what they should do.
I think some fraternity guys feed off being the stereotypcial greeks and one way to do that is to break the rules.
Perhaps I'm making a very uneducated assumption, but I just know so many fraternities that haze even though we have a "non hazing campus".

[Kevin]

Sigma Nu for the last 10 or so years has had a program in place called LEAD. This stands for Leadership, Ethics, Achievment and Development.

The program is designed for students during 4 years of school as to keep Seniors involved. Chapters that have fully implemented LEAD have had some awesome results.

The first year is for the candidate class. Second for sophomores, etc.. It's pretty good stuff.. Mostly applied and hands on.

For example. Part 4 of LEAD Phase I is about Project Planning (I think it's part 4 but who cares, right?) What we do in our chapter is have the Candidate class take charge of the Homecoming or Greek Week activities (depending on what semester). They do not do it by themselves.. However, they coordinate it for the initiates. They are responsible for going to applicable meetings, designing the float, coordinating activities, etc..

It's an excellent program and has really helped a lot of our chapters do complete 180's from being on the virge of dormancy. Here's a link if you're interested:

LEAD Program information

[emb021]

Originally posted by James
This may apply to National Fraternities more than some of the Sororities . . .

But . . .

ITs the lack of our National Programming that gives a chapter a lot of individual leeway for hazing.

Most sororities have a National pledge program (call it what you want) with very little "official" local variation.

This allows them to emphasize training year after year in how to run their programs. And because many of the major events and activities are structured by National and emphasized/trained year after year it eliminates some forms of hazing.

I am not saying that hazing doesn't happen, but its less likely under their system.

Most fraternities do not have a national progam, just guidelines. this measn that there can be very little training on how to run a program in terms of individual events. This allows more latitude for hazing or risky events.

I think a lot of sororities would be horrified to see how unstructured and varied our prgrams are . . .

I have to run so can't complete this post . . . any feedback so far?

I can only speak for my fraternity, Alpha Phi Omega.

APO has a 20 point National Pledging Standards which all chapters are supposed to follow in establishing their pledge programs. It allows leeway in some areas (how/what you teach, pledge requirements) but not others (hazing, following National rituals). The NPS are included in our National Pledge Manual and on our website.

We also have a national Membership Policy and Risk Management policy. Our Memberhship Policy does deal with the issue of hazing, and clearly lists several activities that are considered hazing. Again, these documents are in our Pledge Manual and on our website.

What I've seen in APO is that when chapters follow those 3 documents in their pledge program, there is no problem. When they don't (either due to ignorance or intention), then there is problems. And APO takes a dim view of hazing. Hazing is one of the few ways you can be removed from the fraternity and we shutdown chapters.

[KSig RC]

When the Great Anti-Hazing Backlash among National fraternities occurred, it was simple: "STOP HAZING!!! IT'S BAD!!!"

Few alternatives were offered - actually it might be closer to none. A series of goals was provided, but no path for how to reach these goals.

Well, that's not entirely true - the 'old path' was still around, and that seemed to reach all of these goals, right?

Basically, rules aren't the answer (to my mind) - rather, implementing solid programming suggestions that reach the same goals as a hazing program, but in a legal and safe way, is the key to killing hazing. These suggestions should be specific, detailed, and accessible - the current trend toward vague, idealistic prose without any sort of specific suggestions for pledge events, running of a pledge program, or means to reach the outcome provides little in the way of a viable alternative for those who are currently hazing.

Punishment does not work as a deterent - that has been proved in cases ranging from the death penalty to drunk driving laws. I will contend that we can extend it to this case as well.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

It's not enough to tell a person or a group what they cannot or should not do. They need to know what to do. My sorority has a 21 pearl program. The other NPC sororities have similar programs which outline what new members need to accomplish in order to be initiated. I believe that such programs could be successful with fraternities and give them an alternative to hazing.

[Tom Earp]

Lambda Chi Alpha was the first to come out with the Associate Member as opposed to being a Pledge! They were the first to come out with a No Hazing plan!

This is in all of the Books that LXA puts out!

We as Alums must help inforce it! When a major trama occurs, then we all take the heat over it as we are All Greeks so must be bad!

I am sure Delata Alum and Hoosier both agree, Bad news is press, good news may never be written!

It saddens me along with all Of teh Interfaternal people when we see a young person die or is hazed to abuse!
It is uncalled for! We are trying to build the next Generation!

Who do you think will run the Country and the world the Dopesters!

Well actually Yes more than likely as they have the money!

All I can Say Peeps is get your houses in order or, da guess what you will be very gone!

We as Greeks are swiftly becoming the Minority of Minoritys!