Mutual Selection in Formal Recruitment: Not So Mutual? For PNMs and Parents.

KSUViolet06 · #1 06-05-2012, 05:43 PM

We've been having this discussion in bits and pieces in other threads and I felt like it may be a good idea to start a thread about it, for the benefit of those participating in recruitment.

Often (because it's the message put out there by Panhellenics), PNMs go into recruitment thinking that mutual selection = they are "choosing which ones they want" and "deciding which chapters to cut."

They think that going into the process, the process is all about THEM and that THEY (the PNM) are in control.

That is NOT the case.

In the opening rounds, it's the chapters making the majority of the selection decisions. So while you may feel that on the first day you "didn't click with XYZ" and don't want to go back there, it's really not up to you or focused on what you want.

The balance of selection weighs more in the favor of the chapters than it does on you as the PNM.

Selection tends to be more mutual in the actual BID MATCHING process (at most schools) than it is during recruitment.

It's important for PNMs to know this, in the event that they get their schedules for the 2nd day and face the inevitable "these aren't the ones I wanted" moment and contemplate withdrawing from recruitment. I feel like you're more prepared and in a place to keep an open mind if this is discussed up front.

Thoughts, flames, etc. are appreciated, especially if anyone thinks I'm wrong or totally off base.

carnation · #2 06-05-2012, 06:02 PM

Hey, good topic. Stickied!

Greek_or_Geek? · #3 06-05-2012, 06:42 PM

I feel like it would help a lot if schools did a better job at explaining the sororities' role in creating their invite list long before they rank for the first time. They need an honest tough talk about how they probably won't get everything they want back rather than the rah-rah mutual selection PC stuff many schools give them. This could be one way to soften those horrible horrible first and second round cuts most PNMs will experience. I truly feel that in the name of political correctness that we set their expectations too high.

carnation · #4 06-05-2012, 07:02 PM

Hear hear!

LSuz19 · #5 07-07-2012, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greek_or_Geek?

I feel like it would help a lot if schools did a better job at explaining the sororities' role in creating their invite list long before they rank for the first time. They need an honest tough talk about how they probably won't get everything they want back rather than the rah-rah mutual selection PC stuff many schools give them. This could be one way to soften those horrible horrible first and second round cuts most PNMs will experience. I truly feel that in the name of political correctness that we set their expectations too high.

Agreed completely!! I really hate how Panhellenic sugar coats things to the PNMs about the whole mutual selection thing. The phrase "mutual selection" is also very VERY misleading! I would know from experience. I know if I was a Rho Gamma/Pi Chi/Rho Chi/whatever you want to call it, I would straight up be honest with my group of girls and fully explain the term. I also feel like recruitment counselors don't give advice to PNMs on do's and don'ts of recruitment. It would be so beneficial to the girls! After going through formal recruitment twice, mine never gave the real truth about recruitment nor did they give tips for everyone in the group to hear. Don't get me wrong...I love love loved my rho gammas!! They did give good advice one on one, but I wish they had given tips for everyone.

Titchou · #6 06-05-2012, 08:50 PM

I agree. The PNMs need to understand that based on meeting them and any recs (if they do those) and their basic resume/rush app the chapters will issue a predetermined number of invites....that not all can be invited back to all groups. And that the way the PNMs rank those chapters will determine which ones they will go to if they get more invites than party slots. period, end of story...

KSUViolet06 · #7 06-05-2012, 09:59 PM

Oh yes, predetermined invites. For sure.

At competitive schools, a lot of chapters have a good third of their invite list for that first round of cuts determined before you even set foot on campus.

Done this whole spiel before, but for the sake of having it posted here for PNMs to read:

For example, let's say that ABC at Big Southern University has 100 members (not using big numbers because I'm tired.) Each of them personally knows 2 PNMs from church/camp/high school/etc. that they think would make great ABCs.

100 x 2 = 200 women that they vouch for and really want back for next round.

For the next round, they can only invite back say, 300. Out of that 300, there are 200 girls with personal connections whom members already know of and want.

Assuming that all 200 of those are issued an invite, that leaves just 100 spots for "newer" PNMs whom no one has heard of prior to recruitment.

All of this to say, you may go into recruitment really liking Super Popular Chapter and may even have a great conversation there and feel like you "clicked." Newsflash, those chapters are REALLY good at talking to people and generally are going to make everyone feel welcome. That doesn't mean you're getting an invite (see above point about not having a lot of invites to go around anyway.)

A lot of PNMs have a skewed perception of their recruitment desirability. They think "Oh I'm a shoo in for this group or that because I have good grades, recs, etc." There's more to it than they realize, and while they're focusing on pretty much unattainable chapters, opportunities with others who DON'T have their invite lists pre-decided are sailing on by.

That's why open mindedness is important.

Titchou · #8 06-05-2012, 10:09 PM

snap snap snap

AOII Angel · #9 06-06-2012, 09:54 AM

Can we please address the topic of making cuts? You are NOT cutting sororities each day. You are simply ranking them according to your preference. This helps Panhellenic match your invitations so they can discard any extra invitations you may receive if you have more than allowed for the number of parties the next day. I'd you are invited to a group that you RANKED low (not cut), it is not because they some how superseded one of the groups you liked better, it is because you did NOT receive an invitation to that group. Go to all your parties with a smile on your face, a good attitude and an intent to make a new friend. Good luck.

KSUViolet06 · #10 06-06-2012, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Can we please address the topic of making cuts?

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...d.php?t=121739

FleurGirl · #11 06-06-2012, 05:18 PM

For whatever reason, this is the major point I think is lost on PNMs: at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how much you love a house; if they don't love you back, you aren't getting a bid. I understand that they don't want the PNMs to be terrified or feel totally out of control, but the reality is that the chapters are ultimately the ones really doing most of the decision making. Yes, the PNMs get to decide which bid they'll accept and certainly have a say in the process, but if a chapter doesn't want a particular PNM for whatever reason, that PNM isn't getting a bid there.

dgdramadawg · #12 06-06-2012, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FleurGirl

For whatever reason, this is the major point I think is lost on PNMs: at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how much you love a house; if they don't love you back, you aren't getting a bid. I understand that they don't want the PNMs to be terrified or feel totally out of control, but the reality is that the chapters are ultimately the ones really doing most of the decision making. Yes, the PNMs get to decide which bid they'll accept and certainly have a say in the process, but if a chapter doesn't want a particular PNM for whatever reason, that PNM isn't getting a bid there.

And to add onto this, something I always tell my rec girls:

If they don't want you, you don't want them. So if a house cuts you, don't waste your time crying over it.

You want a house that wants you. You deserve a house that wants you. Focus on the houses that invited you back, not the ones that released you.

33girl · #13 06-06-2012, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

And to add onto this, something I always tell my rec girls:

If they don't want you, you don't want them. So if a house cuts you, don't waste your time crying over it.

You want a house that wants you. You deserve a house that wants you. Focus on the houses that invited you back, not the ones that released you.

Good advice, but I think it's important to let them know that "they may have wanted you, there was just someone else they wanted more."There's a world of difference between that and the sorority not wanting you AT ALL.

The thing is...I'd hate to encourage girls to think "those snobby bitches didn't like me so forget them!" but on the other hand, to be TOO positive could make a rushee think "I just have to try extra hard, and they will bid me next semester/year." It's a hard line to walk, and I don't know how people do it.

dgdramadawg · #14 06-07-2012, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl

Good advice, but I think it's important to let them know that "they may have wanted you, there was just someone else they wanted more."There's a world of difference between that and the sorority not wanting you AT ALL.

The thing is...I'd hate to encourage girls to think "those snobby bitches didn't like me so forget them!" but on the other hand, to be TOO positive could make a rushee think "I just have to try extra hard, and they will bid me next semester/year." It's a hard line to walk, and I don't know how people do it.

I guess it's easier to think this in the early rounds of SEC recruitment. If a house cuts half of 1200 rushees after round one, and you were cut by them, that means you weren't even in their top 600. No one wants to be in a group where she didn't cut it for the top 600 (much less the smaller groups for rounds two, three, and prefs).

mandyk01 · #15 08-10-2012, 07:24 PM

At my school we use Alumni Rho Gammas and I have done it for the past five years and I am rarely asked how it all works. It makes me think the PNMs don't really care...or at least the y don't know they should care about the MS process.

From a Panhellenic standpoint I am pretty honest and tell all the women that they have some say but the decision ultimately lies with the sorority (especially in low quote schools).