the disadvantage now of legacy

[Ace23]

i find it very interesting. a sorority sister’s daughter just went through recruitment at wisconsin at madison. she was immediately dropped by her legacy house. yet, was kept by much stronger recruiting houses and pledged a much stronger recruiting house. i feel houses are so quick to decide on legacies “to not string them along” that they don’t really give the opportunity to get to know them and develop a connection. frustrating for sure!

[BuffGirl]

Yes, yes, yes! I have posted on this subject a few times before. CU Boulder does this a lot too, and it is very frustrating for mothers and daughters. It's to the point where the pnm's know to leave legacy information off of their registration forms just so they can have an even chance during recruitment.

[Ace23]

@Buffgirl. i agree. i would almost advise friends to have their daughters leave it off. i was lucky my daughter was a triple legacy and did pledge our sorority. she is fourth generation. i don’t think that will be something that happens anymore.

[Cookiez17]

I know many of the NPC sororities put this policy in place recently, but I've never heard of legacy status essentially dooming you. Yes, there are times, especially in huge chapters where more legacies go through than there are new member spots and some girls will get cut.

Funny enough, the problem had an opposite effect when legacies were still a thing; houses would drop a girl because "Oh, her mom was in ABC, she's going to go that house." but that sometimes lead to a girl getting cut harshly.

[FSUZeta]

Yes and yes, Ace23 and BuffGirl. It is a phenomenon happening on many campuses and has been for many years, well before our national officers decided to do away with legacy policies. It’s almost as if legacies have targets on their backs, and not in a good way. Luckily, many legacies have caught on and simply leave off any Greek affiliations. That is what I advise now.

As to the old rumor that whole pledge classes could be filled with legacies, I rank that right up there with “ we can’t have chapter houses because the city, county, state, (whatever) considers housing for multiple women brothels.” I have yet to see pledge classes full of legacies only. Most sororities were required to invite legacies back to the first invitational, after which they were free to drop them, if they so desired. There were varying requirements concerning placement of legacies on bid lists, if they made it to pref. So, that dog don’t hunt. And these legacy decisions are coming back to roost. I have heard from alumnae of different sororities that they are no longer financially supporting their org due to these policy changes.

[carnation]

^^^ All true!

[RedRover]

A few years back, a friend of mine, who belonged to XYZ sorority, had a granddaughter going through recruitment at a competitive university which also was the grandmother's alma mater.

A few days into rush, my friend received a telephone call from the XYZ house telling her that her daughter was being cut from their list of potential new members. The young woman, who called my friend, was extremely apologetic, explaining it was a matter of numbers. My friend told the caller that she understood. The young caller told my friends that that she was screamed and cursed at by mothers, grandmothers, sisters, aunts, etc., of rushees were no longer on the XYZ list.

What my friend didn't tell the young lady was that her granddaughter that dropped XYZ from her potential list of sororities. The granddaughter told my friend that she felt a better connection with ABC and DEF sororities and my friend understood. The graddaughter accepted a bid from DEF

[FSUZeta]

And that’s awesome, both for the fact that they called the grandmother with whom the PNM had the legacy, and the fact that the legacy had been invited back for a second look. How wonderful that the PNM had the opportunity to see her grandmother’s chapter a second ( or third time) and that she decided she would shine brighter elsewhere and found her people in DEF.

[AGDee]

I had a situation like that- a good sister friend had a daughter going to a school with our sorority. She had sent in the legacy form. She complained loudly that her daughter wasn't invited to any events (school was totally COB, no formal recruitment). I was a regional officer so I reached out to the chapter advisor to see what had happened. They had invited the young woman to everything and she declined and only went to events for the other sorority on campus. I never told her. All three of her daughters went to this other sorority. This alumna still brings it up now and then and I just keep my mouth shut.

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I had a situation like that- a good sister friend had a daughter going to a school with our sorority. She had sent in the legacy form. She complained loudly that her daughter wasn't invited to any events (school was totally COB, no formal recruitment). I was a regional officer so I reached out to the chapter advisor to see what had happened. They had invited the young woman to everything and she declined and only went to events for the other sorority on campus. I never told her. All three of her daughters went to this other sorority. This alumna still brings it up now and then and I just keep my mouth shut.

Happens in IFC recruitment a lot! Since we're 99% informal rush, legacies will many times not go to their legacy chapter events, or if they get a bid to their legacy chapter, they'll sign a bid with a different group. They will almost always tell their dad/grandfather/uncle that they didn't get a bid from legacy group and chapter advisor gets a rude phone call.

[shadokat]

The whole pledge class of legacies is a bunch of horseshit. It never happens. As for your legacy sorority dropping legacies in first round, my thought is if you know she isn't a fit, better to cut her now than lead her on. Since nobody has legacy policies much anymore, I'd be shocked if they even call the member anymore to let her know her legacy has been cut.

Also, just because a house is a top chapter on a campus doesn't mean that their return numbers are high. I've seen plenty of campuses where top chapters have a great return rate during first rounds but are weaker during preference or vice versa. Ace23, could be that her legacy chapter has great return rates for first round, but not for later rounds, so they have bigger cuts off the bat. Nobody really knows what the return rates are outside of FSL and maybe the Panhel recruitment chair.

[kchaptergphib]

I would say, after being a Membership Advisor for, oh, 15 of the last 20 years the disadvantage of being a Legacy I see most often is that Legacy (or, maybe sister/Mom/Grandma) actually being poorly-prepared for Primary Recruitment.

How do you poorly-prepare your Legacy for Primary Recruitment?
You perpetuate or believe any or all of the following inaccuracies:
1. Primary Recruitment isn't competitive at Dear Legacy's school
2. Legacy Chapter at ABC University doesn't have to make cuts each round
3. Just having DL register as a legacy when she registers for Recruitment is plenty of introduction and help
4. If a PNM is not invited back to a chapter, that means the chapter did not like them
5. Legacy status guarantees invitations in Primary Recruitment

If Mom (or whoever is the "Legacy-maker") only focused on her organization, and hasn't promoted all sororities and their opportunities AS A WHOLE, that doesn't bode well for Legacy's recruitment experience.

Corresponding Corrections & Details:
1. Most PNMs aren't attending Ole Miss or Indiana Recruitment, but that doesn't mean that the process at their school isn't competitive. I wasn't proud of the placement percentage this year at Wisconsin at all, but it was almost completely due to PNMs withdrawing themselves from PR, not being released completely from all chapters.
The prepared PNM should be able to present, interview, and connect well (and quickly!) with all types of active women recruiting her. If she isn't ready for that or is expecting to just coast through Recruitment rounds without trying to make good conversation and connections, she will be disappointed.
Some chapters, some years have to release a majority of PNMs before the first invitational (Round Two). That means, if PNMs want to see that chapter a second time, they will have to score higher than more than half of the other PNMs around them.

2. Every chapter makes cuts and selections, it just depends a bit how deep those cuts happen and when. And it very likely varies a bit from year to year, even with the same chapter. So, someone might have told you DEF isn't a strong recruiting chapter? Well, their RFM numbers might be different this year, so they are more-selective after a round than they have been before. Everyone makes cuts, so don't expect your Legacy to be immune to them!

3. If you do decide to note your legacy status when you register for Recruitment, at least make sure you submit the correct "Legacy-maker" info so the status can be verified.
I'm also going to say something semi-controversial here and recommend that you DO submit a Legacy Introduction letter/Recommendation form if you're disclosing your Legacy status. Make sure it is a well-written, helpful introduction letter, though, if you’re bothering. Someone who has known the Legacy for a few years AND is proficient and experienced at writing good post-secondary education recommendations is what is going to help you here. What might not help Dear Legacy would be 3 recommendations all listing the same bullet points from DL’s resume written by alumnae who haven't even met her (excluding maybe Southern/SEC recruitment where “recommendations are required” so better those resume recs than nothing, I guess).
The recommendation should help the Legacy shine, and also be a good resource for the active Chapter to match her with similar chapter members. I also think it can't hurt to note how Legacy is prepared well for her undergrad experience = how she is looking forward to finding her people on campus, whether it's in Legacy Organization or not!

As some of the other posters have said, we’re not seeing New Member Classes composed completely of Legacies. That’s true, but at many schools, it would be possible. If a chapter has more than quota number Legacies going through that year, they could fill a class with Legacies. As we have New Member Classes with non-Legacy members, Legacies are clearly getting released. I don’t believe anyone thinks it reasonable to expect that a chapter take a New Member Class of only Legacies, so yeah, that means if Legacies are getting released from their Legacy chapter(s), that means your Legacy could get released. The math indeed applies to her, too.

4. Many PNMs with good scores are not invited back to chapters in subsequent rounds. Depending on when a Chapter has to make cuts, these are usually women that the chapter liked, but they liked other PNMs more (scored higher). I know that doesn’t make the PNM feel any better- that there were other women preferred to them; but it would almost always be an untruth to say that they were not invited because no one in the Chapter liked them at all. Don’t let your PNM or Legacy say they weren’t invited back to a chapter because the chapter didn’t like them, because that’s probably not true!

5. Different organizations have different Legacy policies. Some of those policies recognize aunts, great-grandmothers, step-sisters, etc., as “Legacy-makers” and some do not. Some organizations give Legacies various different benefits (like invitations or placement on lists) during Primary Recruitment and some do not. Some have changed the Legacy benefits for Recruitment in the past few years. You should make sure you know your own Organization’s up-to-date Legacy policy and benefits. You should also inquire ahead of time what is required or allowed as to notification if a Legacy is released during Recruitment. It might be that your Organization does not notify the Legacy-maker, and leaves it up to the Legacy themselves if they want to notify their family member(s).
Over the years and a few campuses, I have seen my Organization release Legacies, release in-house Chapter Legacies, have multi-generational Legacies in the New Member classes, release multi-generational Chapter Legacies, have recommended Legacies in the New Member class resign before Initiation, have Legacies resign their membership prior to college graduation, have Legacies of other PHA orgs in the New Member class, remove our Legacy benefits in Recruitment, have GPB Legacies choose other PHA orgs over us, have PNMs only disclose their Legacy status after they have withdrawn from Primary Recruitment, etc., etc.

Your Legacy is unique, just like everybody else.

I still think the best way to prepare her (like any other PNM) is to be realistic, grateful, and positive about the process and opportunities in Greek Life as a whole.
Prepare yourself (and any other Legacy-maker) by knowing your Legacy will not be invited back to all organizations for all rounds of Recruitment. That means there may come a time when she is not invited back to her Legacy Organization(s).

Thank you for coming to my TED talk

[carnation]

That was fabulous!

[navane]

Originally Posted by kchaptergphib

I would say, after being a Membership Advisor for, oh, 15 of the last 20 years the disadvantage of being a Legacy I see most often is that Legacy (or, maybe sister/Mom/Grandma) actually being poorly-prepared for Primary Recruitment.

How do you poorly-prepare your Legacy for Primary Recruitment?
You perpetuate or believe any or all of the following inaccuracies:
1. Primary Recruitment isn't competitive at Dear Legacy's school
2. Legacy Chapter at ABC University doesn't have to make cuts each round
3. Just having DL register as a legacy when she registers for Recruitment is plenty of introduction and help
4. If a PNM is not invited back to a chapter, that means the chapter did not like them
5. Legacy status guarantees invitations in Primary Recruitment

I find it interesting that, in your experience, you have found that legacy PNMs are most often poorly-prepared.

One of the current arguments for not requiring recommendations and not recognizing legacy status is that legacy PNMs have an advantage over non-legacy PNMs in primary recruitment due to having more inside knowledge and connections. Here, in your personal experience, you are suggesting that these PNMs are actually poorly prepared. This tells me that it could be that the mere fact of being a legacy doesn't necessarily mean that a PNM has a far greater chance than anyone else.

[Titchou]

Amen and amen. I would also add: quit listening to tent talk. Just because you only had invites from X groups that you didn't like doesn't mean that NO ONE liked you or that you were dropped from recuitment. And most important - X number of chapters wanted YOU more than the other PNMs in recruitment. Be respectful of that!