Who Owns Your Badge?

[aephi alum]

My understanding is that I own my badge, and while I should be buried with it or return it to nationals, I am under no obligation to do so.

If my hypothetical future daughter or granddaughter joins AEPhi, I can (and will) give her my badge. Otherwise, I will probably will it to a more distant relative or a friend who is an AEPhi. Whatever happens, I will leave strict instructions that it is not to end up on ebay or anything like that!

Edit: What happens to all those badges that go back to nationals? Do they just sit in a drawer or display case gathering dust? Are they offered to members who have lost their badges and want a replacement? Or what?

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

The biggest key is simply to tell your relatives what you want done with it when you die. If you don't tell them, it is highly likely that it will end up in an estate sale with everything else that no one wants. THAT'S how they end up on ebay.

[StumpsGirl]

Would it be wrong of me to keep it seeing as I am not a member?

Almost 3 years ago I lost my boyfriend to leukemia. He was a member of Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia and he was buried with his badge but some of his other memorabilia was given to me. I was told that the members of this (AMAZING) organization request that the thigns go to someone who will respect it as he did. I guess they thought I would. His father was a Sinfonian before him and kept his songbook. Perhaps this is some info someone could use.

[Sister Havana]

We own our active pins in APO, as far as I know. My pledge pin was property of my chapter and was returned after initiation.

[MysticCat]

Thanks for the clarification, SmartBlondeGPhB and OohTeenyWahine.

And thanks for the story, StumpsGirl -- I think your boyfriends' brothers made a very good choice.

[sageofages]

Originally posted by aephi alum
Edit: What happens to all those badges that go back to nationals? Do they just sit in a drawer or display case gathering dust? Are they offered to members who have lost their badges and want a replacement? Or what?

In the case of Phi Mu, a badge that has been returned to the Executive office (for whatever reason) is held for five years. This is in case the individual or heir of the individual requests its return. After that time, badges are made available to sisters for 1/2 the retail cost. This is wonderful because you can sometimes pick up beautiful badges that are not available to order anylonger (ie, with opals or emeralds) for a very reasonable price.

[KillarneyRose]

From "Delta Zeta and You" (our pledge manual)

All Delta Zeta Badges are the property of the sorority. The privilege of wearing the Badge is extended to all initiated members in good standing. A Badge is loaned to an initiated Delta Zeta for her own use during her lifetime. Any member lending her Badge to anyone not entitled to wear it shall forfeit it. A member may be buried wearing her Badge if it is the expressed wish of her family. Otherwise, the Badge should be returned to National Headquarters.

That's why I always thought that if Delta Zeta chose to present a legal challenge to someone who is trying to sell a DZ Badge on eBay, they would have grounds to do so. Because the person doing the selling can't possibly be the legal owner because the legal owner is the sorority. It would be interesting to see what would happen, but I guess no sorority really has the money to jump into a legal battle and the collectors probably know that.

[wptw]

But KR, here's the big disconnect... A statement of policy in a pledge manual does not constitute a legal agreement. Not by a long shot. There's no date, no signatures, the parties to the agreement aren't named...

And actually, the law would likely say exactly the opposite of that DZ policy statement. The law would likely say ownership HAS transferred to the member because possession of the badge is given to the DZ sister in return for some nominal consideration (an initiation fee).

And in any case, none of this stuff becomes binding on the family members, estate liquidators, junk pickers, collectors, etc. who later take possession.

So it's not that the groups don't want to spend the money on a legal battle. It's that they know they have absolutely no legal ground to stand on and could never win.

Morally, the answers may be different. But legally, YOU own your badge. If you die, your legal heirs own your badge. If you sell it on ebay, the auction winner owns your badge.

...and I'd be very interested to see proof that the bylaws have "always" had this provision in there. I've read a lot of old constitutions, bylaws, pledge manuals, rituals, etc. and I agree with MysticCat that it's a fairly recent phenomenon - probably not older than 25 years, and certainly not older than 50.

wptw

[HotDamnImAPhiMu]

Too bad, too, because it'd probably just take ONE well-publicized case for GLOs to make a huge dent in the number of badge sales on ebay.

[KillarneyRose]

Hey wptw! Nice to see you coming out of lurkdom for a bit

I have no doubt that you know what you're talking about and you're probably right that about the morally correct vs. legally correct thing.

But I am pretty sure that when I was initiated I signed an agreement to the effect that the Badge belongs to the sorority and is on loan to me. (granted, that happened many, many moons ago so my memory may be faulty!) But if I did sign an agreement like that, wouldn't that have legal ramifications?

[MsCongeniality3]

In APO we aren't given badges, just the pledge pin which is property of the chapter and an active pin which is property of the Active. However, if there are brothers who want badges, they can buy them from the fraternity jeweler. Since they are purchased by an active or alum, I wonder how nationals can have any say in it. I have seen APO badges on ebay. Just hadn't purchased one.

[Diamond Delta]

I know that I own all the badges( I am in a social, philanthropic and professional sorority) I have because I bought them from Burr Patt or I bought them from ebay and no one from that particular organization has a policy. As a matter of fact, a national officer encouraged me to go through ebay if I "could get a better price".

If I decide to upgrade my badge and contact Burr Patt directly and they sell the badge to me, it's mine. It is not my sorority's and it is not a life long lease and it does not become their property if I get kicked out, quit or die. I bought it from the jeweler. I have the reciept!

I would also like to add that I have purched 5 or 6 badges directly from jewelers and other IHQ's with no proof of membership ever being asked of me. I simple informed them of the name and chapter and year I wanted engraved on the back. I gave these as gifts to good friends of mine that either lost their badges or had been watning to upgrade. But I could have been anybody. Those badges, until I gave them away, were also legally mine.

[ISUKappa]

Originally posted by Diamond Delta
...I would also like to add that I have purched 5 or 6 badges directly from jewelers and other IHQ's with no proof of membership ever being asked of me. I simple informed them of the name and chapter and year I wanted engraved on the back. I gave these as gifts to good friends of mine that either lost their badges or had been watning to upgrade. But I could have been anybody. Those badges, until I gave them away, were also legally mine.

We've had some issues with non-members buying badges direct and then selling then on eBay. Our HQ worked with Burr Patt to ensure this does not happen any more. There are very strict guidelines they have to follow before they will let anyone order our badge and the info has to be checked and verified with our HQ before the order is final.

ETA: They're more likely to work and side with us on this matter because if they didn't it would mean losing an entire fraternity account (hundreds of thousands of $$) over a $75 badge.

[wptw]

Originally posted by KillarneyRose
But I am pretty sure that when I was initiated I signed an agreement to the effect that the Badge belongs to the sorority and is on loan to me. But if I did sign an agreement like that, wouldn't that have legal ramifications?

I like to lurk.

Well, if you find one, please show me. So far no one has been able to produce one of these “agreements”. I’ve done a lot of homework on this issue, but I have to point out… I’m not a lawyer. I just play one on GC.

Yes, I think if it were a formal lease agreement, it would be binding. Just like you can’t lease a Hyundai and then try to sell it on ebay. But think about the kind of paperwork you go through to lease a car. That’s an agreement. By contrast, simply signing a “Statement of DZ Policy” I think is legally worthless.

But… If you do have an actual lease agreement and the member dies, then I suppose it’s up to the leaseholder to put in their claim. After the death of the member, their estate goes through probate, at which point advertisement is made for any creditors against the estate. DZ at that point could show up with the lease agreement and possibly lay claim to the badge. I don’t think the probate court concerns itself with small personal possessions unless specifically mentioned in the will – they concentrate on real estate, cars, boats, etc. But maybe DZ would have a shot at it.

If DZ doesn’t show up with a claim, the estate gets doled out to the heirs and those heirs are now free and clear of the lease. Certainly the estate liquidator who buys from the heirs, the jewelry dealer who buys from the estate liquidator, and the collector who buys from the dealer are all free of it.

You can see that having formal lease agreements really doesn’t help you much because they would be almost impossible to administer.

Originally posted by Diamond Delta
If I decide to upgrade my badge and contact Burr Patt directly and they sell the badge to me, it's mine. It is not my sorority's and it is not a life long lease and it does not become their property if I get kicked out, quit or die. I bought it from the jeweler. I have the reciept!

That’s an interesting twist on the subject. The sorority may never actually own the badges to begin with. That is, unless they buy in quantity from the official jeweler and then distribute to the members.

wptw

[KSUViolet06]

Sigma HQ holds the legal title to all our badges.