After Several Years: What Do You Think of the New Release Figures?

[carnation]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

Single intentional preference when allowed, I believe, helps not only the girls, but the Chapter. I know of more then one Chapter that makes quota on paper but only has half the New Member class show up. That is a no win for every one involved. Either way the Chapter probably isn't going to make quota and that is a problem.

This. I keep hearing stories about chapters whose so-called achievement of quota was only on paper as well as those whose pledge class size is cut by half a few weeks later. Panhellenic Councils are shooting themselves in the foot by requiring not only forced pref parties (I started a thread on that years ago) but requiring that PNMs rank all of those pref parties for whatever reward.

[DubaiSis]

I think the way it's SUPPOSED to work is just fine... the rush counselors should counsel against it but not to the extent of saying anything like it's not allowed. If a chapter is going to end up with a girl on their list who shouldn't be there it doesn't help anyone, and artificially inflates the numbers. But I hate to lose any sort of effort to get girls to go through preference with that last choice chapter because as we've said here a million times, minds can be changed.

I guess I'd like to keep making them go through preference, but not restrict against SIP. We can't be believers in "freedom to associate" AND force girls to pledge chapters they don't want. And making them sign a bid card is the same as making them pledge as far as I'm concerned.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

What's the harm in making quota on paper and then having only half show up for bid day? Is the chapter somehow better off if their initial list only had half the women?

[Titchou]

The only requirement of RFM is that you maximize your options in order to be guaranteed a bid at the end. You are free to not accept an invitation but you have to understand that your chances for a bid just went waaaaaay south if you don't.

[AnchorAlumna]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

What's the harm in making quota on paper and then having only half show up for bid day? Is the chapter somehow better off if their initial list only had half the women?

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Ex: It's hard to change anything when you get 5 girls, everyone else gets quota of 30, total is 100, you have 20, and you're so deflated that you just feel like giving up. But if you can manage with the RFM to get 25 and a chance in hell of getting to total, it gives you some hope and you feel like things can change.
Make sense?

There's your answer DeltaBetaBaby.
Members of successful chapters often have no idea how discouraging, demoralizing and depressing it can be when you work really hard to pledge even close to quota. You finally do it, and then the NMs insult you by refusing to even show up. AND you're back to desperate COBing. Not to mention the entire campus decides you're the one they like to kick.

[AnchorAlumna]

Originally Posted by LAblondeGPhi

1) For chapters that are doing even moderately well on their campus, they may have to face really steep cuts in Round 1, and I think this makes a case for some kind of longer Round 1 (maybe two sets of visits, etc.) process on campuses that can swing it. The difference between someone who's invited back and who is released can be pretty random.

2) When I was a collegiate, "double-rushing" was always an issue for my chapter: we would frequently have a few PNMs each round who had to be doubled up with another PNM because we didn't have enough sisters for conversation. With RFM suggesting that smaller chapters invite back even higher percentages of PNMs, I think Greek Advisors NEED to include break parties (for PNMs, not for chapters) to ensure that the smaller chapters can actually handle their PNMs effectively.

I've double and triple rushed...not fun, neither for the rusher nor the rushee (to use the un-p.c. terms).
I like that Alabama and schools with big numbers are not only doing two Round 1 days, but adding extra parties to lower the number of PNMs at each party.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

There's your answer DeltaBetaBaby.
Members of successful chapters often have no idea how discouraging, demoralizing and depressing it can be when you work really hard to pledge even close to quota. You finally do it, and then the NMs insult you by refusing to even show up. AND you're back to desperate COBing. Not to mention the entire campus decides you're the one they like to kick.

Um, I don't think you know who you are talking to on this one. My point is that getting a list with only half of quota on it is not somehow worse than getting a list with quota and having only half the women show up. Both are horrible, but I think that there are, in most cases, at least a *few* women who show up because they are bound for a year.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Um, I don't think you know who you are talking to on this one. My point is that getting a list with only half of quota on it is not somehow worse than getting a list with quota and having only half the women show up. Both are horrible, but I think that there are, in most cases, at least a *few* women who show up because they are bound for a year.

Yeah, but then you are on pins and needles hoping they won't drop (because you often know EXACTLY who they are because they returned the shirt you lent them with tears from mascara stains all over it). I'd rather get half of quota and then move on - to, for example, the women who would be great members but just didn't want to go through formal rush - than spend all year babysitting.

Plus, getting half of quota you can explain away ("our nationals really cracking down on grades and we had to cut more heavily," "we are restructuring," "quality not quantity" etc etc) and kind of BS to maybe make it seem like your idea. If you get quota of 50 on paper but only 25 of them show up, there's no way to get around it. Half the women you asked to join your sorority want nothing to do with you - even at the price of spending a year of their college career not participating in Greek life.

As far as the smaller chapters having too many to handle in parties - couldn't you accomodate that (without adding pointless rounds for the "everyone we invite will want us" chapters) by just adding a few more rounds and giving some chapters more breaks? Of course, there's the danger of PNMs figuring out that the more popular chapters are the ones with less parties (i.e. self fulfilling prophecies).

[AnchorAlumna]

Originally Posted by 33girl

If you get quota of 50 on paper but only 25 of them show up, there's no way to get around it. Half the women you asked to join your sorority want nothing to do with you - even at the price of spending a year of their college career not participating in Greek life.

That's exactly what I meant.

Originally Posted by 33girl

As far as the smaller chapters having too many to handle in parties - couldn't you accomodate that (without adding pointless rounds for the "everyone we invite will want us" chapters) by just adding a few more rounds and giving some chapters more breaks? Of course, there's the danger of PNMs figuring out that the more popular chapters are the ones with less parties (i.e. self fulfilling prophecies).

right - add more parties...that way the smaller chapters won't have to double/triple rush, and the bigger chaptes can change out rushers. If certain sororities have more parties, everybody immediately knows why.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Yeah, but then you are on pins and needles hoping they won't drop (because you often know EXACTLY who they are because they returned the shirt you lent them with tears from mascara stains all over it). I'd rather get half of quota and then move on - to, for example, the women who would be great members but just didn't want to go through formal rush - than spend all year babysitting.

Plus, getting half of quota you can explain away ("our nationals really cracking down on grades and we had to cut more heavily," "we are restructuring," "quality not quantity" etc etc) and kind of BS to maybe make it seem like your idea. If you get quota of 50 on paper but only 25 of them show up, there's no way to get around it. Half the women you asked to join your sorority want nothing to do with you - even at the price of spending a year of their college career not participating in Greek life.

As far as the smaller chapters having too many to handle in parties - couldn't you accomodate that (without adding pointless rounds for the "everyone we invite will want us" chapters) by just adding a few more rounds and giving some chapters more breaks? Of course, there's the danger of PNMs figuring out that the more popular chapters are the ones with less parties (i.e. self fulfilling prophecies).

My point is that BOTH are heartbreaking. It has been my experience that at least a few girls who are unsure will give it a shot and end up being great members. I agree, you should not beg women to stay if they don't want to be there, but there will be at least a few who expected XYZdreamchapter, don't get it, and suck it up and move on.

It depends, obviously, on how big your chapters are, how large quota is, how your campus does the reveal, etc., but we've had plenty of stories on here about women who came to love their second choice.

Again, I'm not saying that women should be pressured into putting down a chapter they DO NOT WANT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, but I think that there are a good many women filling out bid cards who are just so SURE that they are going to get a bid from XYZ that they haven't really thought through what would happen if they didn't.

I can think of several threads about women who got their second/third choice, cried and went home immediately, and then came here looking for advice because they realize now they should have stuck it out.