A pledge with a kid? - Page 2

chitownxo · #1 10-23-2002, 09:45 AM

This actually happened to my chapter back in the day (late 1980s). This girl went through rush, and while we knew she was slightly older than your typical pledge (late 20s) no one ever asked if she had a child. I had a couple of classes with her, and studied at the library with her, and the issue never came up. So, she completes her new member period and becomes a sister. Later that year, right before our spring formal, I ran over to her apartment to get something - can't remember what. I looked over at her spare bedroom, and there are two miniature bunk beds, a huge toy box and other kid-centered things there.

I looked at her and asked her if she had kids. She told me she didn't - she kept that room for when her little brother and sister came to visit her. I didn't really believe it, so I let the subject drop.

The following fall, this particular sister asks me to be in her wedding, and I went with her to her home town to get fitted for my bridesmaid dress. It was then I found out that 1) this would be her 2nd marriage and 2) she did indeed have 2 kids. Her mother turned out to be a fountain of information.

She de-activated when we returned to campus. One of our sisters moved into her apartment complex ratted her out to our e-board. I honestly don't think our e-board would have been as angry with her if she had admitted from the beginning that she had kids. She made most of the meetings, and she was a great girl.

Kevin · #2 10-23-2002, 09:54 AM

I'll ask it again because I think it's important:

Would you have given her a bid if she had said she had a child?

aephi alum · #3 10-23-2002, 09:58 AM

I honestly don't see a problem with having a new member or a sister who is married and/or has children.

The time commitment for a marriage isn't too much different from the time commitment for any serious relationship (by which I mean engagement, living together/domestic partners, or headed for engagement). You still spend time with your SO, you may or may not live together, etc. Yet nobody's going to ask you to go alum for getting engaged... but put on a wedding band and it's out the door you go. If anything, being engaged is the point in a relationship requiring the greatest time commitment, because you're finalizing your decision to spend the rest of your life with this one individual, not to mention planning your wedding!

As for having a child, absolutely it is a priority in your life, but you don't have to be a mother to the exclusion of all else. I for one intend to have a career (if the market ever turns around

) and continue to be involved in my community no matter the age of my future child(ren). So, if a woman has time to be a mom and a sister, why shouldn't she be given the opportunity to do so? If rush is the big concern, have dad take the children on a dad-son or dad-daughter camping trip for a couple of weeks

ilovemyglo - I'm surprised the two-year-old was allowed into the rush parties. At my school only sisters and PNMs are allowed in the rush rooms unless there's an emergency, and two-year-olds, while havoc-wreaking, are not an emergency. If she'd pledged, would her sorority have let her child attend initiation too??

mozlvr - If your new member has lied outright about having a child - i.e. she definitely has a child and she has said outright "I do not have a child" - you could have a problem with her as a liar. But if it's just an omission - she never mentioned the child - and she is continuing to meet her obligations as a new member, I don't see the problem.

MoxieGrrl · #4 10-23-2002, 11:41 AM

My chapter had a sister with a child. She was a wonderful, active, spirited addition to her chapter....and her little girl was adorable in her "KD legacy" t-shirt. Yes, she did have problems devoting time to the chapter....but she was there for enough of the important things that I feel we would have missed out on a lot if she was not a part of our sisterhood!

Recruitment is hardly the time to really get to know someone. I think that I would be a bit taken off-guard if I'm prepared to talk about sorority history and a PNM busts out with "Oh, I'm married/divorced/have a child." And I'm sure these women do not want to make it come to that. How do they know that the sisters will not immediately reject them once they find out the truth? We're all aware of the two-faced sorority girl stereotype.

But..........if someone is lying about all kinds of other important that's a different issue completely. The situation surrounding this woman's "other lies" is unclear to me, but is she lying to protect her big lie (i.e. having a child). Maybe then it's forgiveable?

Aphigal: I *loved* your post....rock on, girl

Jhawkalum · #5 10-23-2002, 01:56 PM

Whether people like it or not, fraternities and sororities are private organizations that do have the right to pick and choose their members -- much like country clubs.

Often times women in sororities choose their new members based on common interests, beliefs, and social circles -- if a person has a "standards issue" that clashes with the purpose or the values of a sorority (such as raising a child out of wedlock) they have a right to deny her membership. And if a person flat out lies about that "standards issue", then they probably shouldn't be considered for membership regardless of the circumstances.

I don't make the rules, I'm just telling you how it is.

On a practical note, many chapters require their members to live in the house for at least a year -- how are you supposed to do that with a child? Let's be practical people!!!

#6 10-23-2002, 02:33 PM

We had a similar issue and were forced to de-pledge a girl who had a child, as it is against our by-laws. The wierd thing is that she put down on her forms that she didn't have any children, and we never saw the kid until we'd already offered her a bid.

That was the least of our concerns with her, though... she turned out to be a nutjob....we'd given her a chance even though she didn't rush well, and WOW were we mistaken. I was just glad our bylaws gave us a way out of simply having to say "You're a freak, turn in your pledge manual."

She went on to pledge another sorority, who we fully warned that this girl was a freak, but they took her anyway. And wow, did they ever regret it!

Hmm... well, I guess this was less about the girl having a daughter than her being really scary. Sorry!

LatinaAlumna · #7 10-23-2002, 02:40 PM

ZChi2:

Yes, I totally agree with you!:

"I don't understand the big deal about having a child and pledging. There have been people in my organization that had a child and they were actually the most dedicated member in the chapter. I also don't understand the thing about "image." I'm not saying that people are like this in your chapters, but it's funny how some sororities would let people in their chapter that sleep around with every guy and get drunk every other night. Then they turn around and say no to someone who has a child.
Also just because they person has a child, doesn't mean they can't relate to their pledge class. They might have more responsiblities than others, but they are still a student and want to have sisters just like all of us."

I have sisters with children who are wonderful assets to my organization, and we are better off because of their perspective. I've seen some sorority women doing things that are, in my opinion, far more questionable than...

being a mom

MysticCat · #8 10-23-2002, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jhawkalum
Whether people like it or not, fraternities and sororities are private organizations that do have the right to pick and choose their members -- much like country clubs.

Often times women in sororities choose their new members based on common interests, beliefs, and social circles -- if a person has a "standards issue" that clashes with the purpose or the values of a sorority (such as raising a child out of wedlock) they have a right to deny her membership.

Of course, fraternities and sororities have the right to pick and choose their members. Sometimes this is done using appropriate criteria and sometimes it isn't.

Quote:

And if a person flat out lies about that "standards issue", then they probably shouldn't be considered for membership regardless of the circumstances.

This to me is the real crux of the question that started this thread. If a member began membership in the sorority with a lie and then continues to lie about it, then I would question her integrity. It might be forgivable -- perhaps she was so afraid of rejection that she felt "compelled" to lie -- but I would want to look into it.

Quote:

On a practical note, many chapters require their members to live in the house for at least a year -- how are you supposed to do that with a child? Let's be practical people!!!

On the other hand, on a number of campuses chapters don't have houses at all, or do not have a requirement like this. But if there is such a requirement, then the reason for not extending a bid to a woman with a child would be because she can't comply with the requirement, not because she has a child. And I wouldn't assume that having a child would keep her from living in the house; I'd ask her up front how she would fulfill this obligation.

HotDamnImAPhiMu · #9 10-23-2002, 03:14 PM

If she lied, she goes.

mozlvr · #10 10-23-2002, 05:45 PM

To answer some of your questions the girl did not flat out lie about having a child nor did she lie through omission. She actually lied about several things that surrounfd the issue. There are too many things to go into but an example is that she said that she was babysitiing one day when questioned about the child at her apartment and she said that she did not work. Now, maybe its just me but babysitting is a job! There are several other situations that I do not believe that she has been honest about. The non-baby related things that she has lied about were ways that she manipulated people to get information out of them. I think that the first lie can be excused but the fact that she is supossedly continuing to lie raises some issues and that is why I began this thread.

P.S. To whoever asked, I do not know if we would have taken her if she had told the truth because I do not know what our bylaws are.

penguintpa_lady · #11 10-23-2002, 06:49 PM

like many i see know reason not to let someone with a child into a org. my big had a son when she came thur, & was a very active member. one of our sisters is getting ready to have a baby. PLUS one of our pledges, my best friend, has a 9 month old plus is having another.

crystalline · #12 10-23-2002, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mozlvr
There are too many things to go into but an example is that she said that she was babysitiing one day when questioned about the child at her apartment and she said that she did not work. Now, maybe its just me but babysitting is a job!

There are jobs (which you have to have taxes taken out of, have a schedule for, etc), and there are things you do to make money (i.e. babysitting). Since I was 15, I have not considered babysitting to be a *job*. Maybe she is a liar in other ways, but I know I often watch kids of friends of mine who are not in school, and I certainly wouldn't consider that a job. If she is all around dishonest, that's a problem, but unless you can verify that she has a child before bringing it up to others in your org, I think you might be setting it up for an embarassing fiasco that need not happen. Have a one to one with her, and see if that helps.

DNTKE · #13 10-23-2002, 10:40 PM

I'm with KTSnake.

Would you have had interest in her and given her a bid if you had known she had a child?

Lindz928 · #14 10-24-2002, 01:05 AM

I don't know what kind of greek system everyone else here has at their campus, but at my campus the sororities are all VERY competitive and at times very superficial. This kind of situation would ruin the reputation of the sorority here, and that is definately not a good thing.

I will say that my school is considered very conservative, and for the most part doesn't have too great a view of the greek system as it is, so a situation like this would probably not go over very well.

I really do not think this would even be an issue in any of the 11 NPC chapters on my campus. If they found out that the woman had a kid, she would be asked to de-pledge. I know this is true for my chapter, and I can say with much certainty that it would be the same in any other chapter.

You can think I am too concerned with image and superficial things if you want to, but that is my opinion.

Lindsey

sigmagrrl · #15 10-24-2002, 09:08 AM

Mozlvr, first, I would get familiar with your bylaws before getting up in arms about the child. Not being harsh, but telling you to take a step back and get all the facts you need for your part of the arguement.

Second, the lying can be detrimental. You need to trust your sisters, and she isn't starting out on the right foot. But, I guess I'm still not clear about what she lied about exactly...Did you omit the truth or outright lie?

Lastly, the child can be a hindrance or a blessing, it all depends on how you handle it. Do you have a chapter advisor you could ask to speak with her? Maybe you should have a non-biased adult speak with her.