Obey? Submit? What do you think??

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by VctoriasSecrt:
sit boo boo...good wife

Not to be technically correct, but I thought the name was UBU (pronounced OOH BOO), the now deceaced dog of TV producer Gary David Goldberg.

So it's actually "Sit Ubu, sit...good wife" *sound of a woman's voice saying "Yes, dear"*

ROTFLMNBAO I am having too much fun up in heah.

Match Game '73

[VctoriasSecrt]

good question discogoddess...inquiring minds want to know...especially from the gentlemen...


[This message has been edited by VctoriasSecrt (edited April 23, 2001).]

[VctoriasSecrt]

Originally posted by Rain Man:
Not to be technically correct, but I thought the name was UBU (pronounced OOH BOO), the now deceaced dog of TV producer Gary David Goldberg.

So it's actually "Sit Ubu, sit...good wife" *sound of a woman's voice saying "Yes, dear"*

ROTFLMNBAO I am having too much fun up in heah.

Match Game '73

my bad...i just thought i'd make the name more endearing...but UBU it is...sit ubu...good wife...

[AmerAKAs Most Wanted]

Hello everyone,
I just couldn't resist...I have sat back and read long enough...I am just itching to add my $19.08 worth. So here goes........ First of all...let me say that I agree with TickledPink and Shalom2u.
I think that obeying and submitting is a process that requires growth and maturation as a Christian. As a Christian( and I have grown over the years) I know that God will not lead me down the wrong path ( you must not only know Christ, you must TRUST him as well). The word OBEY was a part of our marital vows. I, too, believe that my husband is the head of the household. I know that he loves me just as he loves himself. I know that if someone entered our home with the thought of taking the life of someone in this house that my husband would sacrifice his life because he loves me so much that he is willing to die for me (and thats powerful). When there are decisions to be made (major&minor) We discuss them. My husband would never make a decision without first thinking it over and because we became one when we said our vows , that includes listening and taking to heart what I have to say.To do otherwise, and make a decision without hearing me would be demeaning to me...and a true man of Christ would not do that because then it would be demeaning to himself as well...because again he must love his wife just as he loves himself. I am not saying that we always agree with each other ..but we always hear and respect the differing opinions.
I think "obey" is taken out of context and is turned into a "Master"(husband)..."Servant"(wife)....type situation when you have a husband who has not grown spiritually.........and is, therefore, acting off of a lack of knowledge..in other words....."he don't know no betta"..but now ask yourself and be honest when you answer " was he that way when you met.....dated....became engaged...and then..married him?
I'm not saying that I have always thought this way..heck...I never thought that I would be one who would "OBEY" any MAN..but I have grown spiritually and I refuse to let the opinions of others stand in my way of doing..."what thus sayeth(SP) the Lord"...because then I would be willing to have my "blessings blocked".

Now..Question for Mandingo Nupe...are you saying that a woman who chooses to "obey" her husband is not a strong woman? If so....I have to disagree with you on that. But let me know....
Having said all of that ..I'm OUT!!!!!!

------------------
#8 Serious Matter
Gamma Nu Omega
Spr2K

[Shalom2U]

Originally posted by Discogoddess:
For those of you who believe that the husband is the head of the household, what does that mean? What is he head of? Does he make the final decisions of the household? Does his vote count more than the wife's or as a tie breaker in a disagreement? Does he make the "big" decisions, concerning money, where to live, etc.? What happens if he makes a decision that has a negative effect on him and/or the wife/family--do you keep quiet or voice an opinion? What do you do when he wanders away from his Christian walk and you (the wife) stay on yours? Do you still view him as the head and follow his decision/lead?

I'm curious to know what exactly we're speaking of when we use these terms...

****Shalom2U wrote a long post Discogoddes***

For me and my household, it means that my husband is the Leader, yes, the CEO of our little unit---and that is a sash and crown I am happy to take off and let him wear (longgg story and testimony so I won't go there). Although he makes the final decisions for our household when it effects us as a whole, he doesn't make personal decisions for my welfare and well being, even though I probably should have gotten his opinion on a certain hairdo/cut that I ended up getting and looking like Moe from the 3-Stooges! And no, his vote doesn't count more then mine (oh he wish he did have it like that cause he'd have a 61" HDTV sitting up in our little den right now).

When it comes to "big" decisions, he learned the HARD way to not only pray and seek GOD'S face for direction, but to ask me if GOD has spoken anything to my heart concerning that "big" decision. See, he learned the HARD way that Leadership is not Dictatorship and when it comes to "big" decisions, it is wise to "touch and agree" as the WORD directs us to do. Yes, there has been a few times where brotha-man with his big ol'man self went and made a decision that not only had negative effects, but the reprecussion (sp) and residue from his decision seem to last forever and ever and ever (and no amen)---did I keep quiet---HECK NO, but after throwing it up in his face and running it in the ground, the LORD reminded me to stop the nagging, get behind him and hold the brotha-man up!

In the one time brotha-man not only wandered, but gallopped as he did, I just held on to my LORD's hand, agreed with the LORD that my salvation was my salvation, and that I would be held accountable for my walk and how I conducted myself through the storm---Shalom2U put the whole armour on, kept her head held up high and stayed the course all the while declaring the WORD over brotha-man's position as Leader over his household. Yes, I had to speak to the North, the South, the East and the West regarding my husband, his headship and his honor before the LORD.

We are still learning, after twelve years, yes, we are still learning. My husband still makes mistakes in his position as Leader, yet we honor the WORD and know that ultimately, if we continue to honor the WORD's way over the World's way, we will see and experience marriage like only the LORD can bless. For me, it hasn't been easy giving up my old nature of running thangs, yet I'm finding out daily that as I submit, surrender and respect my husband, he will not take it to the "Kizzie" role, rather, he smiles and with love in his eyes, thanks me for having his back---and I've found that when he reverts back to "Cave-man", I simply give him my look, go to my room and talk to my Heavenly Father because HE knows how to talk to my husband---even in his sleep!

Speaking of submitting, let me get off GC cause brotha-man looking at his watch and checking me on the computer (he needs to use it before we go to bed)...
Shalom Discogoddes~

[VctoriasSecrt]

Originally posted by AmerAKAs Most Wanted:
Hello everyone,
I just couldn't resist...I have sat back and read long enough...I am just itching to add my $19.08 worth. So here goes........ First of all...let me say that I agree with TickledPink and Shalom2u.
I think that obeying and submitting is a process that requires growth and maturation as a Christian. As a Christian( and I have grown over the years) I know that God will not lead me down the wrong path ( you must not only know Christ, you must TRUST him as well). The word OBEY was a part of our marital vows. I, too, believe that my husband is the head of the household. I know that he loves me just as he loves himself. I know that if someone entered our home with the thought of taking the life of someone in this house that my husband would sacrifice his life because he loves me so much that he is willing to die for me (and thats powerful). When there are decisions to be made (major&minor) We discuss them. My husband would never make a decision without first thinking it over and because we became one when we said our vows , that includes listening and taking to heart what I have to say.To do otherwise, and make a decision without hearing me would be demeaning to me...and a true man of Christ would not do that because then it would be demeaning to himself as well...because again he must love his wife just as he loves himself. I am not saying that we always agree with each other ..but we always hear and respect the differing opinions.
I think "obey" is taken out of context and is turned into a "Master"(husband)..."Servant"(wife)....type situation when you have a husband who has not grown spiritually.........and is, therefore, acting off of a lack of knowledge..in other words....."he don't know no betta"..but now ask yourself and be honest when you answer " was he that way when you met.....dated....became engaged...and then..married him?
I'm not saying that I have always thought this way..heck...I never thought that I would be one who would "OBEY" any MAN..but I have grown spiritually and I refuse to let the opinions of others stand in my way of doing..."what thus sayeth(SP) the Lord"...because then I would be willing to have my "blessings blocked".

Now..Question for Mandingo Nupe...are you saying that a woman who chooses to "obey" her husband is not a strong woman? If so....I have to disagree with you on that. But let me know....
Having said all of that ..I'm OUT!!!!!!

thats cool...but not everyone has it like that...if you are fortunate enough to have a man in your life like that...good for you but...it is not always like that and some men take "obey" out of context...so i would hope that if women choose to leave that in their vows...there is a clear understanding of the original context of the word...and the fact that "obey" requires mutual obedience and respect...and that a womans opinion in family decisions is just as valid as her husbands...whether she is a "house wife" or has a full-time career...her place is BESIDE her husband...not in the general court...
before mandingnupe answers...in response to your question to him...let me say this...if a woman chooses to "obey" her husband and is led down the wrong path due to her lack of take charge initiative when need be...that results in a sad situation...i would just hope that a woman that has it in her mind to obey her husband is not doing so to get or keep a man...and as i said before is doing so with the full understanding that if she puts her foot down on an issue...her husband must equally accept her decision as he would expect her to accept his...i believe there is also a passage about being UNEQUALLY yoked...keep that in mind...balance is key to everything...including marriage...

[This message has been edited by VctoriasSecrt (edited April 24, 2001).]

[sweet aka]

Thanks, Eclipse.....You are right!! I will ask the Lord to help me on this!!! You had some enlightening insight....I do agree w/you!! But that is going to be hard.

Originally posted by Eclipse:
I hear what you are saying! This is one I have struggled with as well. Here's my take on it. When God told man to love his wife as Christ loves the church, he did not put conditions on it. Think about it, Christ loves us even when we are at our most unloveable! Likewise, I don't think God put any conditions on 'submitting'. No "If...then"; know what I mean: My relationship with God is my own. I have to obey him first, even when my husband is being a doo-doo head (that's when it really gets hard! ) If he's not listening to God and taking us down the wrong path then he has some 'splaining to do (see what had happen wuz) when he gets to heaven, while me, on the other hand, will sail right on by them Pearly Gates! LOL

------------------
sspearls

[Rain Man]

AmerAKAs Most Wanted, I want to say that you have successfully made my point on the whole submit/obey thing. These "wimmens" were tryin' to hang a brother over heah. All over a misunderstanding of terms.

Shalom, I loved your testimony, and was blessed by it. I am going to print out a copy of this thread and show it to my friend whom I am courting, and hopefully this will shed new light on an old topic.

Keep on postin'

Rain Man

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by Shalom2U:

****Shalom2U wrote a long post Discogoddes***

And no, his vote doesn't count more then mine (oh he wish he did have it like that cause he'd have a 61" HDTV sitting up in our little den right now).

It's official, Shalom2U, we ARE married to the same husband!! ha ha ha

When it comes to "big" decisions, he learned the HARD way to not only pray and seek GOD'S face for direction, but to ask me if GOD has spoken anything to my heart concerning that "big" decision. See, he learned the HARD way that Leadership is not Dictatorship and when it comes to "big" decisions, it is wise to "touch and agree" as the WORD directs us to do. Yes, there has been a few times where brotha-man with his big ol'man self went and made a decision that not only had negative effects, but the reprecussion (sp) and residue from his decision seem to last forever and ever and ever (and no amen)---did I keep quiet---HECK NO, but after throwing it up in his face and running it in the ground, the LORD reminded me to stop the nagging, get behind him and hold the brotha-man up!

In the one time brotha-man not only wandered, but gallopped as he did, I just held on to my LORD's hand, agreed with the LORD that my salvation was my salvation, and that I would be held accountable for my walk and how I conducted myself through the storm---Shalom2U put the whole armour on, kept her head held up high and stayed the course all the while declaring the WORD over brotha-man's position as Leader over his household. Yes, I had to speak to the North, the South, the East and the West regarding my husband, his headship and his honor before the LORD.

We are still learning, after twelve years, yes, we are still learning. My husband still makes mistakes in his position as Leader, yet we honor the WORD and know that ultimately, if we continue to honor the WORD's way over the World's way, we will see and experience marriage like only the LORD can bless. For me, it hasn't been easy giving up my old nature of running thangs, yet I'm finding out daily that as I submit, surrender and respect my husband, he will not take it to the "Kizzie" role, rather, he smiles and with love in his eyes, thanks me for having his back---and I've found that when he reverts back to "Cave-man", I simply give him my look, go to my room and talk to my Heavenly Father because HE knows how to talk to my husband---even in his sleep!

Girl you betta preach!! ((Sister Eclipse shouting from the 3 pew on the left))


[This message has been edited by Eclipse (edited April 24, 2001).]

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by Shalom2U:

****Shalom2U wrote a long post Discogoddes***

And no, his vote doesn't count more then mine (oh he wish he did have it like that cause he'd have a 61" HDTV sitting up in our little den right now).

It's official, Shalom2U, we ARE married to the same husband!! ha ha ha

[QUOTE} When it comes to "big" decisions, he learned the HARD way to not only pray and seek GOD'S face for direction, but to ask me if GOD has spoken anything to my heart concerning that "big" decision. See, he learned the HARD way that Leadership is not Dictatorship and when it comes to "big" decisions, it is wise to "touch and agree" as the WORD directs us to do. Yes, there has been a few times where brotha-man with his big ol'man self went and made a decision that not only had negative effects, but the reprecussion (sp) and residue from his decision seem to last forever and ever and ever (and no amen)---did I keep quiet---HECK NO, but after throwing it up in his face and running it in the ground, the LORD reminded me to stop the nagging, get behind him and hold the brotha-man up!

In the one time brotha-man not only wandered, but gallopped as he did, I just held on to my LORD's hand, agreed with the LORD that my salvation was my salvation, and that I would be held accountable for my walk and how I conducted myself through the storm---Shalom2U put the whole armour on, kept her head held up high and stayed the course all the while declaring the WORD over brotha-man's position as Leader over his household. Yes, I had to speak to the North, the South, the East and the West regarding my husband, his headship and his honor before the LORD.

We are still learning, after twelve years, yes, we are still learning. My husband still makes mistakes in his position as Leader, yet we honor the WORD and know that ultimately, if we continue to honor the WORD's way over the World's way, we will see and experience marriage like only the LORD can bless. For me, it hasn't been easy giving up my old nature of running thangs, yet I'm finding out daily that as I submit, surrender and respect my husband, he will not take it to the "Kizzie" role, rather, he smiles and with love in his eyes, thanks me for having his back---and I've found that when he reverts back to "Cave-man", I simply give him my look, go to my room and talk to my Heavenly Father because HE knows how to talk to my husband---even in his sleep!

[/QUOTE]

Girl you betta preach!! ((Sister Eclipse shouting from the 3rd pew on the left))

[VctoriasSecrt]

i believe that verse is a bit deeper than believers being unequally yoked with unbelievers...belief in what exactly? simply god...or the equality of man and woman also...along with the belief that a womans place in the home is no more beneath a mans place than the man is beneath the woman...i still would have to be cautious when throwing even that scripture out there to justify having a womans place be anything other than horizontally and verticaly aligned with a mans place...


[This message has been edited by VctoriasSecrt (edited April 24, 2001).]

[sphinxpoet]

OK OK I could not resist any longer! People let us get a perspective. The Bible is a guide to live life by. The guide says to "obey" one's husband. However, the bible is clear that "A Man who has a wife is truly blessed in the Lord". In order for a woman to obey her husban a husband must find a blessing in the wife. It is the LORD's WILL that those who are seperate become one in the union! So if one get's married they are now one entity! If that is true then a woman must obey a will of a man as the man must obey the will of his woman because they are one entity! A house divided cannot stand. The instution of marriage was put in place to prevent us from sinning. However WE all come short of that. The problem with the bible is that people pick out certain things that work for them and ignore the whole text. You must read it as a complete story!

Sphinxpoet
"If ya smell what the Sphinxpoet is cooking"

[DoggyStyle82]

VICTORIASECRET:

You seem to be adamant in waging some sort of battle with those who can accept the concept of "biblical" obedience. I detect just a slight bit of bitterness against men (maybe for a valid reason). I find it amusing that it is such a shock to you that women can obey the word of God and find decent men to lead a fruitful life together with. When two people are not looking to find offense all the time or can see the relevance of some tradition in maintaining a happy home, they can indeed be happy.

To suggest that the King James Version has some transliteral errors is not enough to nullify the Truth of the Word. I own several tranlations down to the most exact from the original Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic versions. While words and phrases are altered and updated, thematically, there is virtually little difference. So, I submit to you, your problem with the Bible and how it relates to women and relationships is that it doesn't jibe with your views of being that stereotypical "strong, independent, Black Woman" who doesn't need a man or relationship to validate her. I think many women have posted that that necessarily isn't the case and that a good man is not the enemy.

[Shalom2U]

Originally posted by sphinxpoet:
The instution of marriage was put in place to prevent us from sinning.

Could you help me understand what you mean by this statement?

Shalom sphinxpoet~

[sphinxpoet]

Originally posted by Shalom2U:
Could you help me understand what you mean by this statement?

Shalom sphinxpoet~

I remember in the Bible I do not have one in front of me in the Acts of the Apostles one of the apostles made mention to the fact that the marriage was created to that a man could have one woman and a woman could have one man because the Hebrews could not understand it was God's will for us to be committed to the Spirit and not the flesh. In plain english he was saying that we needed marriage to stop having wild sex and to be committed to one person.

Hope it helps

Sphinxpoet
Give me time and tommorow I will look up the verse and Apostle.